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  #1  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:08 AM
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603 engine valve seals leaking

I do have 1987 300d. Lately I have changed valves, valves guides, and valves seals. Once you start the car without exhaust and intake manifolds you can see the valves are still leaking oil. Just rise the engine rev. and sprays oil to the intake and blows oil from the exhaust valves. You can physically see it. I have changed the seals and valves because the car was smoking at first morning start. Before I have pulled the head of the car I`ve checked the seals the same way like I have described above.(took the intakes out and run the engine) The head is #14 but is not cracked. New valves, guides, seals. I`m going crazy. Any advice

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Old 04-24-2008, 09:38 AM
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are the guides new, or just knurled? very odd for all that new to be leaking...
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Old 04-24-2008, 05:06 PM
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new guides, valves and seals. No idea what`s going on. HELP. I work at the shop fixing European cars. I would call my self a good technician. I have never gave up. At this time I`m almost ready to give up.
I thought maybe the leak is around the guides between the guide and the head it self. Looking at the oil spraying out looks like the oil is going from the guides on the inner side like the seal is not holding. No valve loose at the guides. They are perfectly tight and going nice and smooth.
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:19 PM
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Did you use Mercedes supplied valve seals? Some members of this forum have reported they are the only ones that work.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:29 AM
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Did you measure the valve stem to valve guide clearance? Did you have the correct tool to install the seals. Did you regrind the valve seats and valve faces?
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  #6  
Old 04-28-2008, 12:12 PM
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I have the valve seals order from Worldpac. I think they have the genuine parts for MB.
I have used the little plastics covers on the top of each valve to not damage the seal. Intake and exhaust valves have different thicknes. I did put the correct seals size to each valve. Can you point me to the right thread regarding the valve seals problem.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:18 PM
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First are all the guides leaking about the same for all cylinders? It could be a case of someone oversized the guides when reaming them out in combination with poor replacement valve guide seals. I doubt if worldpack would supply mercedes valve rubbers with so many aftermarket suppliers out there.
Did the person installing the guides heat the head and freeze the guides before pressing them in? If not the block might be expanding and letting the oil get by the guides as the intended original interference fit was destroyed by cold fitting the guides..Plus these heads are known to soften somewhat with age. This would intensify the problem. Pulling the valve pan and oiling around the base of the guides to see if oil passes down might not hurt.
Something sounds fishy here if the oil is coming in a lot. If he did not install the guides properly he probably way over clearanced the valve guides as well. There is not much of a way much oil can get down new guides if reamed to proper clearances in any quantity.
Since the valve rubbers are new they should not allow the leakage to this extent either. Mercedes guides demand a tighter clearance than most cars. Some guys can really mess up things.
I might consider cutting a plastic umbrella for a real leaking valve to deny any supply of oil to the actual stem and see if that guide is still leaking oil down. If done properly and there is still oil dripping down it has to be from the guide to head area.

Last edited by barry123400; 04-28-2008 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:53 PM
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For me the valves are leaking from space between the valve and guide. I have changed the seals two times already. Also changed the exhaust valves. few valves are not leaking . You can see the leak even from exhaust valves.
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:07 AM
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Leave it alone for a few days. Sometimes it goes better when you go back to it. You have to agree at present it makes little sense.
We learnt years ago to leave a difficult problem for at least a day or so. We could usually come to grips with it much faster the next time. Has something to do with objectivity being restored I imagine. Or perhaps even the subconcious mind .
To keep at anything when it has got to the point of frustation or any other emotion is never very good. Emotion will always or usually defeat or distort the application of logic. You tend to get locked into a fixed mental loop.
Very few things in my life actually where not solved by applied logic. There have been a random few times even after the problem was solved it was not really logical. Very rare though. Usually put to rest by an unknown in the general equation left undiscovered.

Last edited by barry123400; 04-30-2008 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 04-30-2008, 10:35 PM
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Sounds like the wrong valve seals were used, or the seals are not fully seated. Do they look like the ones in the photo below? What part number did you order for the seals, and for the guides?

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  #11  
Old 05-07-2008, 12:49 PM
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seals part# 103 050 00 58
exhaust guides part# 601 050 09 24

All seals all green and look very similar to the genuien MB.
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2008, 12:57 PM
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Well, those are the correct part numbers, and I assume you also changed the intake guides (different p/n). Perhaps the valve stems are worn, out of spec? And you're sure the seals are fully seated? (they need to press into place, all the way down, so they're hard to pull off.)

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Old 05-08-2008, 05:15 PM
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What would you say guys if the PCV is clogged. Then the pressure builds up in the valve cover and pushes the oil via the valve guides. My engine is apart now then I have no way to test it or open the oil filler plug. The seals looks tight on the valves. While the engine is running you can see pretty large leak from all guides exhaust and intake. Then higher the engine rev then bigger leak(valve coming out from the guide sprays the oil out). If you shot the engine off no more leak.

Last edited by astrofil; 05-08-2008 at 05:20 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-08-2008, 08:07 PM
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How about pulling one of the valve out that was leaking the most and measuring the out side diameter of the valve stem and measureing the inside diameter of the valve guide and see what the actual clearance is.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:37 AM
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Well, it's possible that a plugged PCV tube could cause this... but it would also kill the engine, because the internal pressure eventually makes the vacuum shutoff on the IP activate. An easy test is to run the engine with the oil cap loose, or removed.

I like D-911's idea about measuring the valve stems and guides. You re-used the original valves, correct? The only other thing I can think of is somehow the new guides were installed incorrectly.


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