Fuel/Water Separator....I SEARCHED!! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

dabenz · #31 05-05-2008, 03:14 PM

Trying to answer several questions at once....

The cleanable inline primary is 50 micron. Cannister secondary is 15 or 16 micron (depends on manufacturer). Spin-on secondary is 10 micron, I think (dabenz has a cannister). My opinion is that there isn't much of a difference between 10 and 15 microns - there's lots of ways to rig the ASE/ASTM test in your favor (my opinion again). Build quality is the issue for me.

NAPA 3369 is a 10 micron Stanadyne filter in a NAPA paper box. If you expand the photo on the NAPA filter web site then you'll see the Stanadyne part number. Quality of filter? Don't know for sure, but to me it's built better than the cannister filters. daBenz is now a summer toy, so I change the NAPA about every five years. The secondary filter (Baldwin) is a bit cheaper in price and build (my opinion again), so it gets changed every year. Plopping out a bit from the filters every driving day is an old habit, as is being picky about where I buy fuel, as is keeping the tank full. The last water I remember pulling out was when I bought the car in 1991 or 1992 - but then again I don't make a habit of saving what I plop out to see if it separates.

babymog is right: the NAPA 3369 is all I really need. But I like seeing up and downstream of the hand/fuel pump, so the inline stays even though it doesn't do much. The inline is downstream of the fuel pump so it ought to be positive pressure, providing the hand pump doesn't leak - and I'll see that in the primary filter. Disregarding the primary, I have a high flow filter upstream of the fuel pump and (I assume) a lower flow filter downstream of the fuel pump, both of which are drainable (if that's a word).

Kind of make sense?

xdjio · #32 05-05-2008, 05:35 PM

BensLover - is that your own water separator in your photos? If so - I'd be curious to talk to you about maybe a) getting my hands on such a separator of my own and b) installing it.

Come to think of it, I'd be interested to talk to you about this anyway!

bill murrow · #33 05-05-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabenz

Trying to answer several questions at once....

The cleanable inline primary is 50 micron. Cannister secondary is 15 or 16 micron (depends on manufacturer). Spin-on secondary is 10 micron, I think (dabenz has a cannister). My opinion is that there isn't much of a difference between 10 and 15 microns - there's lots of ways to rig the ASE/ASTM test in your favor (my opinion again). Build quality is the issue for me.

NAPA 3369 is a 10 micron Stanadyne filter in a NAPA paper box. If you expand the photo on the NAPA filter web site then you'll see the Stanadyne part number. Quality of filter? Don't know for sure, but to me it's built better than the cannister filters. daBenz is now a summer toy, so I change the NAPA about every five years. The secondary filter (Baldwin) is a bit cheaper in price and build (my opinion again), so it gets changed every year. Plopping out a bit from the filters every driving day is an old habit, as is being picky about where I buy fuel, as is keeping the tank full. The last water I remember pulling out was when I bought the car in 1991 or 1992 - but then again I don't make a habit of saving what I plop out to see if it separates.

babymog is right: the NAPA 3369 is all I really need. But I like seeing up and downstream of the hand/fuel pump, so the inline stays even though it doesn't do much. The inline is downstream of the fuel pump so it ought to be positive pressure, providing the hand pump doesn't leak - and I'll see that in the primary filter. Disregarding the primary, I have a high flow filter upstream of the fuel pump and (I assume) a lower flow filter downstream of the fuel pump, both of which are drainable (if that's a word).

Kind of make sense?

Yeah....I follow you.

have been wondering how often you change the filter. Nice to know it's done after 5 years so cost of filter really isn't an issue.

I'm concerned with water in the fuel because my car is at the beach a lot where condensation is a huge issue plus I don't know what stations sell water free diesel and am afraid of getting a bad batch although thats never happened before. Plus I want my fuel extra clean. Last year I cleaned out the tank in the 240 and it was amazing just how much junk was in there.

Thanks for all the help. I'll let you know what I decide on. Most likely will go the Napa 3369 route as the reasonable bone yard is a long ways away plus the time involved pulling the filter off once I drive there.

dabenz · #34 05-05-2008, 11:22 PM

Bill, I forgot: the NAPA 3370 is a 5 micron version. Known in some circles as "the John Deere box filter." NAPA 3371 is the same in a metal can, I think made by WIX nowdays. Haven't held them side-by-side with the 3369 so don't know if they fit the same plate. The 3370 is great for "polishing" - just rig up smooth nipples and tubing instead of buying another plate; clamp off the drain tube with a vise-grip and use a hand pump or gravity to move the fuel. I go from a barrel through a furnace filter then through the 3370 and into a plastic fuel jug - gravity is my friend.

I'm off for spring work.

barry123400 · #35 05-05-2008, 11:43 PM

Primarily I want a water/oil separator. They have a cleanable stainless steel mesh screen in them. Something I can visually check and drain ocasionally.
I have the heavy filtration in place in the original fuel filter itself.
The lack of one on these water separators on old mercedes from the factory was a real error in my opinion. From time to time I always got some water out of my diesel volkswagons separators.
They even have warning system that water is present in them. In theory you could get one from a volkswagon diesel in a wrecking yard. They are located just around the drivers back wheel bolted to the floor underneath. Probably as cheap as your going to get.
May have a hard time finding a good location on our old 123s to install it. Generally if you hooked up the water present warning system it could be located out of site like on the vws.

Bens lover · #36 05-06-2008, 12:33 AM

Hey...xdjio

Hi Josh I have two for sale,one might be already sold I will know this Friday,so one left possibly...

Keep in touch
Dan

bill murrow · #37 05-06-2008, 06:48 AM

DABENZ....Thanks. I'll be near a Napa today so I'll check out what they've got.

Barry123400....You said "The lack of one on these water separators on old mercedes from the factory was a real error in my opinion." And I couldn't agree more. I've never seen any other diesel without one and was quite shocked when I bought my first 123, popped the hood to service it and found no separator.

I think someone mentioned that the stock spin on is also a separator. Is that right? If so the others I've seen have a drain.

barry123400 · #38 05-06-2008, 10:05 AM

Of course the stock filter will act like a water trap. The problem is no visability and you can easily accumulate more water or garbage than it can hold from a batch of fuel somewhere. There is not even a drain as you mention. The separate water separator should vastly extend your present filters life as well.

I also do not know the micron rating of the internal screen in it. It's primary function just might be to keep the larger junk and water in the separator. Reducing turbulent activity stiring up the contents as well in there.

I also have to wonder if people are aware that water through a piston type injection pump is like running sandpaper through it. Or the fit in there is so tight the metal can gall and tear. Even if not that extreme it still is not good and will shorten the lifespan. Thats why I could not understand the elimination of a true functional water separator, visual inspection of fuel content, and drain provision from mercedes . Just about the most stupid thing I could think of and they had to know better.

This is a pretty comprehensive separator even having what appears to be a remote drain location for a tube included rather than dumping the drain contents into your engine bay. I also remember from the past the two bracket mount and rubber isolator or anti squeek rubber. Thats why I am leaning towards old stock. I might be all wet here.
My problem also is on occcasion the bulk fuel carriers have not cleaned their tank out properly before loading fuel. So the problem might be visible in the transparent water separator. . I do not know the quality but a vendor has been selling one or two on ebay per week for about 16.00 by the time most transactions end. I did purchase one but not delivered yet so unsure of quality.
Quite a hardware kit for it including a mounting system in the photo. No filter to buy just remove the stainless filter sleeve periodically and wash it if required. Seems to be a cylinder with a top and bottom cap. Drain on the bottom of course. What I do not know is if the cylinder portion is glass or plastic. Plastic will yellow with age etc. The configuration indicates it is more likely glass. If plastic my thoughts are it would have had a drain in an incorporated moulded base type of thing. He specifically lists it as for 123s. But probably universal.
No brand name evident in the ad either. I will comment more as soon as it arrives. If anyone wants an item number on ebay to have a look I will post it in a few minutes as soon as I find it. Guy has 100 percent feedback and the only downside is he charges 11.50 for delivery inside the states and 18.00 to Canada. I did not find other water separators in this price range. In fact the bulk were combination water separators and filters with some visability of contents.

Okay then the item number is 270234550983 this item finishes on thursday/friday three days from now. He always puts more up so try not to drive the price high.: I believe he has either a lot of them or access to many more. I wonder if it is an old stock item or who the maker is? Since you do not have to replace a filter element it is somewhat irrelivant. I looked at other current offerrings and decided I liked the washable stainless filter sleeve. Also thought visability might be better than with a filter cartridge in there.
Reflecting carefully on the above. I may always have been cheap, but always told the women I was not easy.

I also wonder if we should try for a bulk order? Lets see what the quality is like first. I have also requested the vendor to list one with a buy it now price as well for your benifit if there is interest. Anything to prevent bidding into the stratosphere occuring.

bill murrow · #39 05-06-2008, 06:20 PM

barry123400....Do post and let us know the quality of the ebay separator. I would think the clear would be glass but hard to tell from the pic. Looks like a nice buy with all the goodies included. I like the idea of a washable filter too. And the price is certainly right. I don't find the ship cost to be excessive. Seems reasonable enough. The micron size is kinda unimportant to me as I just really want to get the water out. Also good idea about bulk price if we have enough members here interested.

I wonder what the round gauge looking thing with the wire is? It's shown at about 7 o'clock.

Stopped by Napa today and asked about the 4348, 3369 and 3370. None in stock to look at but he can order one but had to know which one first so I passed.

dabenz · #40 05-19-2008, 02:16 PM

Well? Do we have a clean ending?

bill murrow · #41 05-19-2008, 02:24 PM

Am waiting to hear back from Barry re: the filter he bought from ebay.

Also was told by the local MBZ shop....Dennis Cignatta for you locals....not to worry about it. Had the factory engineers been concerned they would've put one in. Wasn't like the engineers simply forgot to do it.

I would still like to know I don't have any water floating around in my fuel.

barry123400 · #42 05-19-2008, 07:15 PM

Had him hold the order to try for another at half price shipping. It is on it's way now. He claims they have been installed in mercedes for the last fifteen years.
Cylinder is plastic unfortunatly yet probably okay. I just preffer glass as it does not yellow with age and heat.
I still think the vendor is okay. I believe he might have read this thread as well. As he also told me the cylinder portion was plastic without me asking. I cannot remember asking anyways.
Will still report on it as soon as it arrives. Should be in the next week or so.

barry123400 · #43 05-30-2008, 09:00 PM

Okay it arrived. Made in south africa. Your choice depending on orientation of screen in unit for input and output sides. Nice feature to help make a neat installation. Two mounting bracket types. Two of one type and one of the other. In theory you could switch it between cars easily if you wanted to with those additional mounts. The extra nuts and bolts are even present.

Both hose barbs in brass. All nuts and bolts to install. Rough sizes are. Seven inches tall overall. About three inches in diameter. Actual cylinder size is four and a half inches tall and two and three quarter inches in diameter.

Water in unit buzzer warning system included. The item in the picture that was questioned earlier is the buzzer and wire. This being included at this price suprised me. Works on a floating disk principal. If the disk rises with the specific gravity of water it hits two contacts.

Looks like you accumulate about 3-4 ounces or perhaps a little more of water before warning activates. Lots of room above that level still. If you do not like buzzers substitution of a light bulb is straightforward. Although you supply the 12 volt light and socket etc. Enough wire in the package to hook it up.

Had filter screen out. Judging by appearances I might put the unit between the pre filter and main filter. Let the cheap pre filter deal with the heavy garbage.

Finger friendly drain fitting that you can manipulate the position of. Guess what I am saying is for the price not too shabby. One problem I did experience was the contacts that hit the disk were skewed enough that no contact with the disk or warning of water in the cylinder would have worked. Took me only a couple of minutes to fix it. Do not try to bend the probes as they are really hard brass or bronze. You will break them. Again drop me a note if you experience this.

So quality control obviously is not the best. The top and bottom are plastic as well as the cylinder. Kind of unique way the feedthroughs are cast right into the plastic.

The washable very fine mesh screen means no buying additional filters and should provide less flow restriction or back pressure than a normal fuel filter. I will post again when in service for awhile but appears it will do exactly what I want.

The other not really oddity but observation. When the cylinder is taken off it is easier to get the top rubber flange cylinder seal back in correctly if you remove the filter screen as well. This should not be a problem as I cannot see a person taking it apart other than to wash that cylinder screen out.

Overall your main filter is also going to last a lot longer with one of these installed. The other item is the audible warning of water. If you take on fuel at a station and the warning buzzer sounds a mile or so down the road. You have taken on a lot of water with that fuel. This is an excellent thing in my opinion to know earlier than later. Or have fed it through your system with no water separator.

Open bid item always posted on ebay usually goes for 16-20.00 plus 11.50 shipping in united states. Vendor has perfect feedback. I also forgot to mention the two top ventscrews to break a suction if present when draining any water or dirt out of the unit.
Probes in cylinder plus vent screws are solid hard brass. The drain fitting appears to be a combination of some brass with some plated steel. The screen basket I can only assume is stainless steel. Large plastic thumbscrew type of handle to remove cylinder to get to the screen cartridge. No fighting to find the right wrench.
If you want the brand name of this unit pm me. It may not be ethical to post it. Just not sure why exactly. This kind of money to protect the expensive injection pump and injectors is too cheap to really think much about. Every one should have one.
You cannot hook up the warning feature if using gas as fuel. In fact it stated no gas or alcohol fuel. So the guys that use regular unleaded gas with their vegatable oil should leave the warning feature disconnected. Perhaps just bypass this unit period as it may react to gas in some fashion or another not specifically mentioned.
Hope this review answers some of your questions. I have tried to include all I see. If you can think of anything else I might have missed mention it. Remember the item is not in service yet but suspect no suprises or that vendor would have attracted some bad feedback by now. He also claims they have been installing these on mercedes diesels for fifteen years.

bill murrow · #44 05-30-2008, 11:49 PM

Thanks for the in depth report.

Sounds like a nice unit for the $.

I wonder how long the clear plastic will stay clear?

I'm curious to know how much water you'll pick up.

barry123400 · #45 06-01-2008, 08:37 PM

In my opinion you will always collect some water with time. As I see the filter screen construction water and dirt drop down into the cylinder out of a small hole in the base of the fine mesh filter. Since it has the audible water present warning it is not as important how clear the cylinder remains.

In fact it may even be replaceable with a cylinder from a labratory glass place was one thought of mine if required at some point. Should not cost much if your pleasant.

Now the amount of water collected varies from none to massive in my experiences of driving volkswagon diesels for 15 years. For periods you may even seem to accumulate next to nothing. It is also going to accumulate dirt in the bottom in my opinion over time. That saves your main filter the job. Much more will be collected if installed before the pre filter. Consideration might also be given to elimination of the pre filter with this model installed.

Basically the formula does not change. You are better off with a water separator than without one. With the auto warning device if someone pumps a lot of water in you will find out very early. This increases your chances of getting the fuel changed out free and new water free fuel installed.

It really does not matter what brand you buy. People should have water separators. With a water present device is also far better than without one. .