this all started with a simple timing chain replacement. rolling the 1st new chain in, went with out a hitch. but when i went to put the new link in, it didnt fit, the holes in the chain to small. i was cheap and ordered the jap made one from autozone, they dont offer a master link for this chain.

so i ordered the proper german chain and master link. i rollered the 2nd new chain in, got about 3/4 through dropped both ends in the engine and it went right down to the oil pan. i got the end back out the top and 1st new chin out. but managed to completly through the cam out of timing, thats another story for another time.

i got the crack to tdc from the marks and set the cam so it was at the tdc mark, put her back to gether. she wont start.

any advise?

83 300d

I'm not an expert but know the timing chain drives the IP too so if you lost the timing on the IP that would explain why it would not run now even if the cam is timed correctly. How to fix it?? I don't know but I am sure others can chime in.

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Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

Yep, sounds like the IP is now out of synch with the engine. IIRC, the IP has to be removed in order to see it's timing marks.

__________________
RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

The other problem is that I know on some models the IP can only be installed one way or 180 degrees from that (there is only one notch) so if you are off by some odd amount you may need to find a way to slacken the chain enough to turn the IP driver so it is re-sync'd. You may not be able to simply re-set the pump and re-install it...again, others more knowledgable will chime in I am sure.

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Marty D.

2013 C300 4Matic
1984 BMW 733i
2013 Lincoln MKz

i was thinking the ip too, but the chain never came off the ip gear, there was always tension between the ip and crack. only the leftside dropped to the pan, but didnt drop off the crack, got cought up. so i dont think i skipped any teeth. i hope...... is there any way to see if the ip is out of sync without removing it?

was the way i set the cam to the crank correct? just by lining up those two mark on crank an cam?

If the chain did in fact stay on the IP drive sprocket, you could have the IP out of sync. The cam turns twice for each revolution of the crank, so that means the crank will hit the TDC mark twice. Because of this, the IP can be 180 degrees off.

__________________
RRGrassi


70's Southern Pacific #5608 Fairmont A-4 MOW car

13 VW JSW 2.0 TDI 193K, Tuned with DPF and EGR Delete.

91 W124 300D Turbo replaced, Pressure W/G actuator installed. 210K

90 Dodge D250 5.9 Cummins/5 speed. 400K

This comes up from time to time one way or another. I have thought about just doing a drip test on the pump not caring where the marks are. Then look at the marks when you have established the drip cutoff. Crank should be about 24 degrees btdc and cam mark should be in the top quadrant. . If it turns up to be not the case slide the pump out carefully rotate the engine to the right marks and slide the pump in. Do another quick drip test to make sure all is well and off you go. The only other thing is the pump stiff enough to hold the last setting? Especially when removing and installing?
The chain sprocket or injector timing wheel is trapped in the block so should stay okay when rotating the engine with the pump off I think. Others should comment. As I never tried this. Yet if that timing wheel will stay in place it should work. Do this with the injectors or glow plugs out of course.
I know the other way just wondering if this is less complicated and easier to pull off? Do not take it to the bank unless a couple of other members think it has validity. It is more food for thought at this time than anything.

If the chain didn't come off the IP sprocket, it's properly timed with the crankshaft.

Your problem can be the camshaft timing. Firstly, the camshaft mark is on the #1 tower and must be aligned with the thrust washer notch behind the cam sprocket.

This mark represents the zero degree crankshaft position for TDC of the #1 piston on the compression stroke.

The question is whether the IP is in phase with the camshaft.

Did the camshaft ever get removed from the engine during this process?

Brian he is not going to be able to rotate that crank 360 with the cam inactive. We almost have to assume he is still somewhere close with the crank and cam timing even though he dropped the chain or engine will have jammed up before rotating far. He would not have been able to complete rolling in the chain.
He could only be really far out on the injection pump timing in my opinion. No more than a tooth or more on the cam is possible if a 617 and still have engine rotation. He says he tried to start it remember. If the starter is rolling the engine through okay back to the injection pump. Just my opinions and subject to all kinds of things. Just do a conventional drip test before anything if the top dead centre mark and the cam mark as Brian mentioned line up. Do not line up the botttom top dead centre mark with the cam mark pointing down or cam lobes pointing down when you turn the engine prior to a drip test.

Yes, I agree.

But, he cannot have lost IP timing if the chain didn't drop from the crank sprocket..........which I don't believe it will do. Tim mentioned many times in the past that you can drop the chain down into the abyss.........fish it out.........and proceed onward with nary a worry.

I'll bet that he's out by one tooth on the camshaft.........which would mean that the data regarding the camshaft marks is flawed.

I'll edit my previous post.........he won't be able to rotate the crankshaft with the camshaft stationary.

No need to edit your post Brian most of it was really good information for him. I sometimes have a hard time expressing myself in a reasonable fashion so will try to improve.
There is a chance everything like the pump timing is still on as you suggest. If a notch or two off in the cam timing might be enough for it to hard start for example. Or something completly unrelated is going on. You have far more experience on these particular engines than me and I am not a mechanic.

Ninety nine point five percent of your advise is extremely accurate. I wish I had that kind of batting average. He had to remove the valve cover for example to change the chain. What if his linkage is binding and holding the stop engine device on for example. First of all though is to establish the correct timing of pump, cam and crank. Will not take much effort.

For some unknown reason my engines are terrified of me.They seldom act up . Even just opening the hood makes them shake and quiver. Thats with the engines off. If I just reach for the dip stick the shaking moderates a little. If I have a screwdriver or wrench in my hand the engines need new motor mounts by the time I am finished.
If I were to raise the hood to the full open position it might become like an epileptic fit under the hood. Just the other day the 84 300d surged around a sharp corner. It did not catch itself quick enough. It will remember not to do it again or I might open the hood. I have heard these particular cars develop symptoms that self repair or go into remission? I know why mine do. I always carry a small tool assortment in the trunk.

this is incorrect.


the mark on the cam lined up will ALWAYS be the compression stroke on #1...

it's the cam that makes it the compression stroke.
the crank mark can be out of sinc with the cam mark, but the cam mark is the compression stroke.

so if cam and crank marks are both lined up, only the IP can be out of sync.

__________________
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My drivers:
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1987 300TD
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OK, I agree.

I view it as both the crankshaft and the IP being out of phase with the camshaft. I do not believe that it's possible to lose the timing between the IP and the crankshaft under normal circumstances.

So, a possible scenario is the IP out by 180 degrees with respect to the camshaft..........but, I don't see how this can occur unless the camshaft is removed from the vehicle during the process.

she started, dont now what happened. i've been cranking it all morning nd nothing. i put the battery charger on it to top off the battery. went out to check the battery after my last post. the battery was topped so i said what the hell let me try it again. she runs!!! its wired though, i cranked it for about a total of 10 mins this morning, nothing. now she runs, guess it was just the battery my bad.

Thank you all for the input ad advice. i have been reading the forum about a year now, which lead me to my purchase of my 83 300D 4 month ago. if it wasnt for the forum i would have no idea were to start on my repaires. This forum i great.

Well, that's good news.

These scenarios always give us the opportunity to brainstorm..........it's good for the mental acuity.........clearly, mine needs improvement.