Here's the deal.

When I bought my very first Benz (W123) in Aug 2006 I was interested in a veggie conversion. Well as time has passed I have lost interest in converting it but as it has happened, I have become pretty attached to the car from a stand point of the quality construction of it as well as general ease of working on it myself. I haven't even mentioned how I've come to enjoy hearing that unique diesel sound as it is idleing and the expectation that, if taken care of - which I tend to be a fanatic of sorts - it will last many more miles! It's also fun to see people looking at it as I drive by as well.

It has been my choice to own vehicles that are paid for (or a very short term note) and are of known endurance, i.e. - the W123 diesel or Honda Accord and so on. I drive my work van all week and seldom get in the Benz until the weekends and then only if the roads are dry. My other car, 1992 Accord, is the one my wife uses to putter around town in doing errands and such. It is a very nice little car (rust free!) with 183K on the clock. Now, at 54 I am getting a bit tired of getting in and out of it as it sits very low, so I've been thinking about getting something bigger and much more comfortable to replace it with. AND...I would like to update my car(s) several years as well.

Now comes the decisive moves. Here is a car I'm looking at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200280501646&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem= and would consider IF, IF, IF I somehow could know that I wasn't buying into an endless money pit! I've read many posts about the 140 platform and all the problems they have had on many of them but somehow I'm thinking "...this one's not one of them!" YEAH, RIGHT! Thinking like that can get one into deep doo-doo...

I have been considering keeping the Accord and selling my W123 and buying something like this to use as our "road car" that would only see about 5K miles annually. Am I NUTS or what?! Help me out here guys, talk me out of/or into it! I know this is the diesel forum and I'm sort of asking you to talk me into a gasser, allbeit a fine MB machine! Down side to this deal for me is the W123 prices don't seem to be very good in this part of the country.

My indy mech says wow, that's a tough choice to make since those are one of the best production cars to ride down the road in BUT they can eat your bank account if things start going wrong. There are just sooo many bells and whistles that may/will go bad. The guy that has this one tells me it has had two PO's and that it is "exceptionally clean, inside and out" and "well cared for".

__________________
Dale

What's wrong with a W126 SD?

__________________
1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

What's the latest model year for them? I'm wanting something well into the '90s at least...

As far as "what's wrong..." with them - nothing I'm aware of!

__________________
Dale

Hmm, that is tough. Didn't they make the 140 with a diesel until 95 as well? They are probably hard to find if they did, plus the whole rod-bender thing (although it may have been fixed by 95?)
Anyway, while I am horribly biased against Hondas, the generation of Accord you have is by far my favorite, and probably what got them the reputation they have today. This gives you two good cars to have to decide on!
It's tough to say, especially if you are only going to use it on the weekends..if it were me, and I was going to drive it that little, I would not be afraid of going for something that isn't the most reliable; i.e., have a Jag sitting around to go joyriding in. So in that case, I'd say go for the 140. I can't really help you on what to look for though. Obviously I think you should keep the diesel, but it sounds like you know what you want..at least you still want to have a Benz!
I agree with Tyler though, I would much prefer a 90-91 w126 over a w140, but that is just my opinion.

__________________
Dan
2005 E320 CDI - 246k
1987 300SDL TD05-16g, Herlevi pump, Elbe manifold, 2.47 LSD - 213k
Past: 1987 300D - 264k

that w140 chassis are notorious for electrical problems. and the diesel they put in those is a rod bender. i would stay as far away from a w140 as possible. w123 and w140 are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

__________________

This car has been absolute 'gold'! It's a 'point-n-shoot' vehicle - very, very reliable. In the five years I've owned it, I've only done routine maintenance, tires, battery, oil/filter, pads. It's coming up for the timing belt/water pump service. My brother works for Honda America and he says that generation was indeed the best made, especially the '91 - '92. Theory is, during that time we were at war with Desert Storm and car sales were down so the assembly lines were slowed down considerably, allowing time to get things 'right' the first time. I don't know...

As far as the 126, I like the car. That's the one anybody thinks about when "Mereceds Benz" is mentioned - it's classic - but it's still (for me) an 'older' Benz. I want to update to a newer body, that's all.

__________________
Dale

I don't believe I would even want a diesel in a 140. A 4.2L gasser would be the recommended (by my indy) power plant.

I am aware of the dependability of my 123 and that's what I am thinking would be my luck! I'd trade off a 123 for a 140 and regret it for years to come!

__________________
Dale

Haha, interesting. My family has owned a bunch of Hondas, from an 80 Civic to a 98 Accord..the early 90s Accords were great though..from there they just kept getting bigger and bigger. I'd say a new Civic is as big as one of those was.

Anyway, what makes you want the 140? Not that you shouldn't or anything; just wondering. But upgrading from a 123, you'd probably be better off with a 124 if you wanted "newer", especially with the same 4.2 V8. That would be nice, and probably a bit bigger than the 123.

__________________
Dan
2005 E320 CDI - 246k
1987 300SDL TD05-16g, Herlevi pump, Elbe manifold, 2.47 LSD - 213k
Past: 1987 300D - 264k

Ahh the W140 bug has bitten you, it truely is one of the finest sedans ever made by anyone. Mercedes spend $1 billion dollars designing them back in the late 80's, I don't think anyone can afford to make such a car again. They delight through share attention to detial. Driving one will be deadly, your 300D will feel like a John Deere in comparision, the Honda isn't even in the same ball park. Nothing eats highway miles like a properly sorted modern S class. You must keep a carefull eye on your speed as the car will want to waft into triple digit speeds with ease. In a W140 the only way you know your doing 120 insted of 70 is because the scenery is moving faster.

The model you should look to buy is a late production(1997-99) S320. They are "simpler" since they were the base cars, and the M104 gives you all kinds of room under the hood. While not as fast as the larger motors, the M104 with the splended 722.6 gearbox move the car along nicely. It won't have the same punch at passing speeds as the big motors. If you want punch the 5L V8 is the way to go, unless you want the V12 of course. Both are similer speed wise, but above 100 the V12 will pull away. Top end should be about 175ish.

I would not buy this W140 for a couple of reasons. One it has to many miles, you want at least half that. Two its an early production car so it will probably have all those cool early production issues, like a failing wiring harness. Three its the small V8, if you want to spring for the V8 go for the S500.

IMHO the best W140 is the S600 flavor. Every time I ride in my friends perfect 1995 I am amazed at how good it is. That V12 just has a never ending surge of power and would be more than happy to pull the car along at 150+ until the tank ran dry.

Surprisingly it has been more reliable than my SDL, but has covered far fewer miles. However keep in mind your buying a top of the line car, so when they do break its never cheap. Spending more on the best example you can find should help minimize this.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The only comment I can think of is that the newer cars have more things that you cannot even diagnose, much less fix yourself. Therefore, the possibility exists that a W140 car will be more expensive to own.

As regards a Benz newer-looking and newer-feeling than your W123 car, anything from a W124 forward will qualify – I speak as an owner. As the 1987 300D Turbo is getting hard to find in decent condition (with a late head and all), I would suggest looking at a early-90s 300D 2.5 Turbo.

Another possibility would be a 1995 W124 with the OM606 NA engine. Our '96 W210 has the same engine; it is very nice although not as powerful as the later turbo versions. I don't think those engines ever made it into the S-class but I will defer to others more knowledgeable of the S-class.

I agree with H-guy that you should look at an S320 if you have to have a W140. The inline six gives you more power than the equivalent diesel, lots more than your OM617 but it will be easier to care for since it is smaller and has two fewer spark plugs (ugh!). BTW, Mercedes gassers are not terribly fuel-efficient, or so I have heard. You might want to get some numbers before you make a decision.

Jeremy

__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970

Gotta agree with H-guy on the topic of flat out 'cruising' at high speeds and not being aware of it!

Have a good friend in Atlanta, that had the exact car except Black on Black...he bought it new - a couple of months after he bought it, I was in Atl and he was taking me to the airport --- From the Gwinnett north side of town to the airport was an amazing ride - he was torturing a couple of guys in a 7Series Bimmer --- and it was pure torture! That friggin car would FLY. I'd personally be afraid of the 500 series, but then again my reflex movement isn't as good as it used to be.

With all the positives of his car --- he only kept it a little over a year...it became the car from hell - it had low mileage, because it spent most of it's life in the warranty lane at the dealer --- strange stuff too. Problems from one end of the car to the other - A couple of the tech's refused to work on it.

Mercedes finally offered to buy it back from him, but they were going to give him another of the same. He refused the deal, made the move to Lexus and has never looked back - Must have been one of those Monday morning or Friday afternoon builds you hear about...From his experience, I don't even give that model a second look --- That's my personal feelings.

__________________
71Inka02

62 W121 190DB - Original CA/AZ Car - Excellent Example
99 E300 Turbo Diesel - 362,000...Awesome Daily Driver
01 E320 Wagon - 297,xxx (wife's work car)
01 E320 Wagon - 131,000
02 Land Rover Disco SE- 110,000
87 BMW 325is (E30) Full Restore - Son's
06 Mini Cooper 'S' - Son's
87 Toyota FJ60 Land Cruiser - Showroom Condition - 152,000

84 300D - 142,xxx :cool - "Sold"
83 300D-"Sold" - 211,456
85 300SD-"Sold" - 213,789

I had a 91 350 sdl. Lovely car to drive, with a wonderful leather interior. It is the 126 body. It has the rod bender motor though, and I would not recommend buying one unless it has been converted over to the three liter short block or you can buy it cheaply enough to justify a conversion.

Personally I would stay away from a 140...too complicated and having driven one I could not see much difference between how it drove and how a 126 drove.... and I think I am pretty picky about ride and handling.

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I owned a 93' 400SEL, and it was quite reliable. I loved the styling, but that fact that I was always afraid something was going to break and bankrupt me, is what made me sell it. It was a great car, with an AMAZING sound system, huge amounts of interior room, and a powerful engine. It never missed a beat, cruised easily at 130MPH, and looked great doing it.

The one you are looking at appears to be in outstanding condition, certainly not as nice as mine. I would look at it, and if everything checks out and you like the way the car drives, then I would go for it. 5k miles a year isn't much, and it should be able to easily do that. One thing I notice, though, is that the trunk doesn't appear to be closed all the way, this indicates that the door-close assist system isn't functioning...a common problem.

The big-ticket items on these cars that are known to fail are the AC evaporator, electronic throttle actuator, Bose stereo amplifier, and apparently they go through suspension bushings rather quickly, but I never had that problem.

Good luck.

__________________
Current cars:
2000 ML55 AMG, 174k miles
2003 C240 T-Modell, 202k miles
1995 S320, 207k Miles

That has actually been a concern of mine regarding buying anything much newer! I really like fiddling around doing much of my own maintentance BUT...(a little secret here, at my age - and I'm not THAT old but - I'm getting to the point I do not know how much longer I want to crawl up under and get greasy and such!) Definately a consideration in this equation.


Lots of great insight here H-guy! Indeed I have been bitten by something, just not really sure what yet! I love the 'massive' presence of the 140's however I've never been behind the wheel of one - but I'll regard your comment about that being "deadly"


Yeah, you're right, mine is the size of the newer Civics.

As far as my reasons for 'wanting' a 140 is as I stated above in this post, I just like the way they look - big, massive, good looking, yet neo-classic styling!


So...you guys have been true to form, you've stepped up to the plate when asked for opinions and have delivered well! All comments considered, I am tending away from the big 'monster' and coming slowly back to earth! Perhaps it's time to spend more on the ol' 123 - new windshield gaskets front and rear, trunk lid seal, door and window seals, all horizontal body parts refinished, some upholstry work, etc., etc! (The 123 is NOT a bad speciman actually- these are just some wish list type items!) You all understand that I'm sure .

Thanks for the words of wisdom they have been taken 'to heart'!

__________________
Dale

When the 140 was new, there was nothing even close. Now that they are aging, ...
I was looking for a winter driver, looked at 3 S 500 cars (all black btw) with less than 200,000miles, all under $2000. I also looked at a couple of W210 E 320s for more money (that tells you something), and the most expensive of them all was a W124 E 320, which I bought. It is IMO the most robust design of them all. Althought the W210 has a more modern climate control, some updated features and now stale styling (but more up to date?), it has problems not the least of which is its rust problems. The W140 is an outstanding cruiser, but buy just one door-close assist, or the overly-complex CCU repairs, you're never going to recover the money.

If the car sold for under $2,000 I'd say it's interesting, for over that it had better have impeccable records and maintenance or it has the potential for eating you alive. The best comes with a price, like having a mistress I suppose.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff