240D engine to be used for a Generator (info needed) - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lutzTD · #16 02-12-2009, 03:15 PM

post pics, I am also interested in fabbing one of these some day. those Listers look scarey to me.

pawoSD · #17 02-12-2009, 03:17 PM

If using a cruise system to adapt for the governor.....I don't think that would work very smoothly, because these engines tend to "Ramp up" really fast once they're a bit past idle, so it would constantly be overcompensating and making huge adjustments from idle to power to try and keep it at that speed, especially when there's not much of a load on the genset.....if there was a load it probably could do it pretty smoothly.....otherwise, I bet it'd blow out the cruse actuator in short order. In addition, in case the cruise system failed, I'd install some sort of tach/overspeed monitor that shuts down the engine if it went over a certain rpms.

If I ever try to build myself a gen set I am going to go for an aircooled diesel or a MB thermoking motor like has been mentioned before. We even have a huge thermoking location not that far from us....

leathermang · #18 02-12-2009, 09:17 PM

I just want to hook my DC welder to my spare 240 engine.... So I am hoping for pictures and stock numbers for the connection from the ( standard) flywheel to the welder.
Also, any suggestions for a method of ramping up the rpm when starting to weld... foot control, RC ?

80's old school · #19 02-12-2009, 10:49 PM

I will definitely post pictures when I start to build it. I have to get the car here first and make sure I can get it to run right. The car has not been driven since 1996. He said it was running perfect when he parked it. He said he quit driving it because reverse went out in the tranny.

OK, as far as the hub to hook up the gen. I think (at least the plan for now) I will get a piece of plate probably 3/4 thick and cut it round about the size of the stock toprque converter. I want the plate heavy to mimic the weight of the stock converter. Then I will drill a hole in the middle of the plate just large enough to stick a shaft through it. I will then weld the shaft to the plate. I will then chuck up the shaft/plate assembly in a metal lathe (holding the shaft) and trim cut the plate until everything is concentric. I will then locate holes in the plate to mate to the stock flexplate of the engine. The bolt it up, using probably 1/2 spacers between my new plate and the flexplate. I will then use either a woods or a lovejoy coupling to connect the gen head.

When I talked to the guy selling the gen heads, he said several of the units he sold were to be hooked up to Mercedes diesel engines. Funny, this is prolly the largest gathering of diesel merc fans at one time and you just don't hear about this being done much!!

I will keep you all posted!

Also, again, any ideas what the 240 will make HP @ 1800 RPM??? I am hoping it will at least make 25HP. At first I was gonna use a 300d turbo engine for this project because I have a line on prolly getting another diesel car for free!! I know the 300 would make the HP. I just think I will use that engine for some other project.

KCM · #20 02-16-2009, 10:52 AM

I'll say it again, I think it is a bad idea to use the flex plate. They don't call it a "flex" plate for nothing. Remember, the torque convertor is supported partially by the transmission input shaft, not totally by the flex plate. And the heavier you make the plate, the more the overhung load, and the more the flex plate would flex. You don't want that thing flexing at 2000 to 4000 rpm. Find a manual transmission flywheel.

#21 02-16-2009, 11:33 AM

Using the flexplate will not hurt anything. It will, however, be far too light to keep a steady RPM with a generator. Remember that the torque converter is 3/4 of the rotating mass between the engine and transmission. You need mass to keep RPMs stable and that means using the heavier manual flywheel.

80's old school · #22 02-16-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

Using the flexplate will not hurt anything. It will, however, be far too light to keep a steady RPM with a generator. Remember that the torque converter is 3/4 of the rotating mass between the engine and transmission. You need mass to keep RPMs stable and that means using the heavier manual flywheel.

I was planning on using a plate about 3/4 to 1 inch thick to keep rotating mass up. Also you will be turning a quite large (rotor?) in the generator as well.

I should be going to pick up the little 240D this coming weekend. First line of work will be to get the engine running well in the car.

kalpol · #23 02-16-2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80's old school

I was planning on using a simple Audiovox cruise control system. Run the engine until you get 60 cycles per minute and then set the cruise. When the load changes (increases) the cruise will still keep the RPM constant to power the generator.

I don't know anything about the injection pumps / governors but isn't there a test in the manual to test the governor on the pump (if that's where it is) - the wide open throttle test or something shouldn't exceed X rpms? So, seems like you could just screw down on the governor and lock open the throttle all the way to keep it at whatever RPM you decide you want.

80's old school · #24 02-16-2009, 03:20 PM

[quote=kalpol;2112231]I don't know anything about the injection pumps / governors but isn't there a test in the manual to test the governor on the pump (if that's where it is) - the wide open throttle test or something shouldn't exceed X rpms? So, seems like you could just screw down on the governor and lock open the throttle all the way to keep it at whatever RPM you decide you want.[/quot

That would be sweet if you could do that!!! Somehow I just don't think it will be that simple.

#25 02-16-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80's old school

That would be sweet if you could do that!!! Somehow I just don't think it will be that simple.

Its a fantastic idea, I don't see a reason why it couldn't work.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=1772106&postcount=20

cessna5354 · #26 02-16-2009, 05:45 PM

240 should do the job very well. I would not consider an air cooled due to excessive noise.

More info on generator heads can be sourced from a vendor Dick Wright of Wrico Generators in Oregon. I have one of his with a 4 cyl Kuboto.

Good Luck

80's old school · #27 02-16-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessna5354

240 should do the job very well. I would not consider an air cooled due to excessive noise.

More info on generator heads can be sourced from a vendor Dick Wright of Wrico Generators in Oregon. I have one of his with a 4 cyl Kuboto.

Good Luck

Thanks....I will check them out! I think the 240 will work nice especially since I will only turn it 1800 RPM.

BTW Cessna 5354......what do you fly? I used to fly a 172P.

dabenz · #28 02-17-2009, 02:14 PM

80's old school,

I don't have hp/torque curves for the 240D, but do have them for the 220D. A 240D is a bored out 220D, and peak torque is 2400rpm for the 220D. These engines like to run fast, meaning you'll coke or produce carbon deposits if you load the engine at lower rpms. My "educated" guess would be about 3000-3500rpm for a generator application that would be a decent balance between a happy engine and a happy fuel budget. "Redline" is 4350rpm on the 220D.

If it was me then I'd find a clutch from a manual transmission then mount a shaft with a HEAVY balanced flywheel behind the clutch, then double belt to the generator, using the sheaves (pulleys) to match engine and generator rpm. HEAVY means at least 200lb, the more the merrier. The clutch makes engine starts easy, and good bearings and substantial safety cage should be obvious requirements.

Governing a generator is an interesting issue. Most of the time you're producing a fraction of rated output. Then a motor kicks on and you need a big AND fast reaction from the governor, up and back down as the motor spools up. A car cruise control should react fast enough (with a big flywheel) but I wonder if it can dig deep enough. I'd think it's worth a try, but wouldn't test while running expensive electronic loads like a computer - they can't handle big electrical frequency swings. If the car cruise control doesn't work then you can fit a mechanical governor from a scrapped farm or industrial engine - you get more dig. Look for the working end that mounts to the front of the engine crankshaft, and keep in mind a governor for a 1600rpm engine may not last at 3000rpm. Mounting the working end on the generator sheave shaft is another option - slower rpms there.

Plugging in a battery charger helps stabilize the electrical load on the generator, and eliminates the need for an engine alternator.

You're going to drink fuel, but if you're going this route then you probably don't want or care about idling the engine with no electrical load. That gets complex and expensive real quick.

Keep us posted....

OldPokey · #29 02-17-2009, 04:26 PM

There are "universal" governors available that are belt run. These aren't cheap new, but do show up on the surplus market as they easily outlast the engine they are attached to.

Rashakor · #30 02-17-2009, 08:12 PM

Actually in a cold winter storm like in Massachusetts back in Dec, i would rather prefer to have a water-cooled engine than an air cooled engine. At least you can actually make a derivation on the water circuit of the motor and used that heat that would be otherwise wasted, hence saving electricity for other purposes.
I look forward for the inputs from this thread.