Yikes Only one bolt on 300D Starter ?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cessna5354 · #1 04-23-2009, 08:35 PM

Looking at replacing my '83 300D starter, and I can not see the top bolt head.

I am looking down by the firewall at the ear lobe between the solenoid and the engine, but no bolt head. I can almost see it, but covered with sludge & I can not reach it without removing Air cleaner and such.

I am assuming that there are two bolts, one about 12 oclock & one 6 oclock. I believe that there should be one visible from topside. I have know the history of this car, but need to research if starter has been replaced, from what documentation I have. PO is deceased.

This is the project for the weekend. The '99 is now my daily, and running great. Thanks in advance.

Brian Carlton · #2 04-23-2009, 09:12 PM

The heads of the cap screws are facing the rear of the vehicle. They thread into the starter.

The problem is accessing the upper bolt. You'll need about 24" of extensions (1/2" drive) and a universal joint. Furthermore, you'll need to be absolutely sure that the head of the cap screw is clean and that the socket bit fits all the way down into the screw.

The torque required to break that screw loose will scare you.........be absolutely sure the bit is perfectly square and fully inserted before you apply the torque. BTW, NFW you can add sufficient torque from a 1/2" socket wrench..........you'll need a minimum of 18" to break it loose.

There is a thread in the archives on what happens when you're not careful in the preparation and you strip the head of the cap screw. The next three weeks will be the most painful of your life. You might even take the car to the junkyard rather than deal with the consequences of this screwup.

SD Blue · #3 04-23-2009, 10:48 PM

Something to keep in mind............My car was losing top starter bolts due to a missing bracket from the previous ownership. Check for a bracket attached to the forward end of the starter and the engine block. (BTW, MB wants ~$50 for the small L-shaped bracket. IIRC, the dealership is where I had to get the bolt also.)

blindwolf · #4 04-23-2009, 11:30 PM

If you pull the battery and tray, you can get to the bolts to clean them. I was able to remove the left side bolt using a flex head ratchet.

cessna5354 · #5 04-24-2009, 03:35 AM

Maybe that starter is "not that bad" after all....
I welcome all comments and assistance. I have searched this repair and have put it off for 12 months of operation (winter op's car). I thought before putting it in storage I will tackle in my garage.

I will remove the battery tray and clean, that is the area I was peering down at the starter mounting lobe.

I have the 1/2 extentions and allen sockets 10 mm is req'd IIRC.

Same patience and persistance as GP removal is needed.

I just need to get this area cleaned and get under to assess how to proceed. As I say, Experience is something you recieve just AFTER you needed same... Maybe my wife's yard sale will be a better idea..

Thanks all.

cessna5354 · #6 04-24-2009, 05:38 AM

Spent the last hour+ re researching and found the motherlode of stripped allen bolt threads explaining the starter removal. I also feel really really dumb as I do remember(now) scoping this out 1 1/2 year ago, needing to access from the rear, under the car.

The bendix is stucking and needs 3,4,5X to engage, worse in cold weather, so it must be removed.

Embarrassed, but thanks,

toomany MBZ · #7 04-24-2009, 05:41 AM

Good luck, keep us posted.

chasinthesun · #8 04-24-2009, 11:22 AM

Safety is a must when you are completely under the car also ,lock your rear brakes ,chalk the back tires and use 2 jack stands with the hydraulic jack as the 3rd.The cars front end will be in the air as high as your jack will allow usually to do this job. Might check first to see if your emergency brakes are up to snuff to the job ,start the car and lock your brakes ,put in reverse and see if it holds the car.

rs899 · #9 04-24-2009, 01:51 PM

I just did this PITA 2 weeks ago on the W123 turbo , and spent way more time on it that it was worth. I made the mistake of trying to go in from the top (as I had successfully done on my W116 300SD a few years ago) but the bolt is even closer to the firewall in the W123. The bottom is really the only possible path forward. I used a 3/8" ratchet with about a foot of pipe on it and all the extendos and it just did cleanly break loose. I thought I had broken the wrench when it let go.

cessna5354 · #10 04-25-2009, 08:44 AM

Pre Dawn raid works best. At 4:45 AM today moved the '83 into the garage with double rugs over the concrete & jacked 18", E brake, blocked.

Looked to clean the oil slick from a poorly seated A/C oil return tube but proceeded only to clean the bottom starter allen head. Used a 3/8 slide bar & 10mm allen, once seated it turned without great resistance. One down one to go.
Removed trans support, supported with floor jack & 2X4. Looked to fish the 24" of 1/2" extensions, But no joy from below.

Pulled batt, tray, heat shield, removed trans fill tube support, air cleaner.

Cleaned out upper bolt head and proceeded to cut down a 10mm allen wrench. I cut the short end to make it, well shorter. Thinking that I could maybe cut the handle end and make it fit. After cutting, I had a straight piece of allen wrench, 5/8" long. I trued up the cut end and inserted it into the upper bolt head. Using a 10mm (duh) box wrench & a 15/16 box end on the 10mm, I used the larger wrench as a cheater and with patience and alignment ( got to keep it straght) I got it to POP, actually twice. Wrenched it out with the 10mm from above.

Went back down to the slick abyss, and removed the batt & control cables.
Dropped it out thru the members with wheels turned right, TY Kerry.

I do not know the board member who suggested the allen modification and box wrench cheater, but TY to you as well.

This was done on a '83 300D with turbo.

Now to get it rebuilt, or source a replacement. I will also take time to replace belts, reseal Air cleaner oil return tube, and engine mounts.

Total time just under three hours, not counting my clean up.

Thanks all,

Gary

Shawn T. W. · #11 04-25-2009, 09:09 AM

Thanks Gary for the details . . . sound easier now . . . even though 3 hrs is still 3 hrs!

rs899 · #12 04-26-2009, 06:43 AM

Gary - you are a better man than I. My first attempt was with a 10mm allen bit , a 10 mm wrench and various pieces of bent pipe, wrenches etc. But I kept getting fouled by the transmission check tube (finally bent that) and bowden cable and just couldn't get a good shot at the top bolt. I found working from the bottom to work better, but I had an assortment of those "sloppy" 3/8 exdenders that worked for me.

cessna5354 · #13 04-26-2009, 08:08 AM

RS899,

Thanks for confidence, but I ain't that good...Glad you prevailed. I may have not have spent enough time trying from below, But that is the way the majority of people say they do this. Since I do not have a lift I can access from top & bottom.

Next time try some background country & western music, I usually like to listen to other people's troubles while I toil away..

Gary

Brian Carlton · #14 04-26-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cessna5354

Now to get it rebuilt, or source a replacement.

I would seriously consider a Bosch remanufactured unit rather than the McParts. It's double the price, but, do you really want to do that job again in three or four years?

cessna5354 · #15 04-26-2009, 09:55 PM

Brian,
I have been looking and found a large spread between Bosch rebuilt's. Like $79 to $139-$155. The latter two had different part numbers, not including the Cali type. I do not understand the spread on a "Bosch" rebuild, reman.?? Unless there is a industry std of rebuild / reman ??

I have a local rebuilder who does work on 24V truck & bus alternators and starters. I was thinking that I would call to get his price on him rebuilding.
I am with you on not shopping the auto houses. The rebuild parts is a cut throat business, and they cut all they can to lower the price.

I was not going to tear this down and lubricate the Bendix fork and reinstall, as that is all that is indicating as the problem. I did find that the job was not as intimidating as I could have imagined.

I must reseal the oil return tube where it enters the crankcase/oil pan. The bottom of my car was the worst part of this job.

Thanks

Gary