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-   -   Blown head gasket/hydrolocked engine? Help (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=260011)

gsxr 09-02-2009 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2284812)
Oh, another question. Some of the intake manifold bolts are kind of stripped... oops... I've looked at a couple online parts stores and can't find any new ones, I'm wondering where I can get those.

They are plain old M8 metric bolts, nothing special, but most places don't carry a large assortment of metric bolts, especially socket-head metric bolts. New intake manifold bolts from the dealer are part # 000912-008203, list price $2.50 each. Try taking one to your local NAPA auto parts store, or industrial supply place.



Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2284812)
And also, in that factory manual it has the tightening diagram, but I can't for the life of me read the numbers to figure out which order to take out/put in the bolts.. help on that please?

Use the "zoom" feature on Acrobat Reader to make the diagram larger. At 200% size, the numbers are easy to read (page 11 on this document). If you still can't read it, send me an email.


:scooter:

thebenstenator 09-02-2009 03:43 PM

ooooh, I was using this one it's much less legible and seems to list some unnecessary things to be removed... such as the radiator... :eek:

And which one of these is the upper chain rail... just want to make sure.

I got this valve stem seal kit, they look the same style as in your pic gsxr (just not the color), i just hope they're the "good" ones.

How hard are the head bolts to remove. They feel really tight and I dont want to strip them. Any advice on what to use to break them properly? And do you only work on one at a time, removing it completely before moving on or do you loosen all of them and then remove all of them?

I'm gonna need some sort of magic to get those stripped bolts out. But, I'll find a way. I hope. And Ya, Thanks for the extra resources, especially that readable factory manual :)

babymog 09-02-2009 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aersloat (Post 2284869)
<<snip>>you should be able to find some stainless steel replacements online, which I think would be preferable over the galvanized ones.

Stainless-steel and Aluminum do not play nice, I recommend against putting stainless fasteners into an aluminum head as they might never come out again.

gsxr 09-02-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2284917)
ooooh, I was using this one it's much less legible and seems to list some unnecessary things to be removed... such as the radiator... :eek:

I actually used both, for comparison. The radiator does not need to be removed though.



Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2284917)
And which one of these is the upper chain rail... just want to make sure.

See the diagram below from the EPC. The upper chain rail is callout # 74. Part number is 601-052-03-16 and it's about five bucks.




Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2284917)
I got this valve stem seal kit, they look the same style as in your pic gsxr (just not the color), i just hope they're the "good" ones.

Yep, if they have the metal collar at the base, with a little wire spring at the top opening, those should work. Don't mix up the sizes, the exhaust valves are 1mm (?) larger diameter, the seals aren't the same. The factory seals are different colors for intake & exhaust to help make sure you don't mix them up.



Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2284917)
How hard are the head bolts to remove. They feel really tight and I dont want to strip them. Any advice on what to use to break them properly? And do you only work on one at a time, removing it completely before moving on or do you loosen all of them and then remove all of them?

The head bolts are VERY TIGHT. You should use the factory Hazet tool, or similar name-brand 12-pt drive tool, not a cheap Taiwan item. Make sure the drive tool is FULLY seated into the head bolt - clean the heads with a tootpick, or dental pick, or wire, etc so the driver will fully engage. Otherwise, you can strip the head of the bolt. Use a 1/2" breaker bar. I loosen each one in reverse sequence (from end of the head, working towards the center) about a quarter or half turn each, then go back and remove them in reverse sequence.



Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2284917)
I'm gonna need some sort of magic to get those stripped bolts out. But, I'll find a way. I hope. And Ya, Thanks for the extra resources, especially that readable factory manual :)

Yeah - that's the worst part is fighting with fasteners that may not have budged in 10 years.

:arabia:



http://detali.ru/cat/cats/my.mycat?P...e1d4cbc9b2c7f9

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Brandon_SLC 09-02-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr (Post 2284438)
Yeah, I saw that one for sale in Ogden... wonder what the condition is, with almost 300k on the car.
...

I'd expect the estimate to come in somewhere between $1200 and $1800, depending on the local labor rate, and the shop's expertise with these engines. If you get a quote, please post details here, I'd love to know the going rate!
:zorro:

It runs, there's water getting into one of the cylinders. No water in oil, or vicea versa, as far as I could tell. I warned him not to run it any more in order to avoid further damage. You can hear that 1 cyl makes 10 times more noise than the rest. Based on smell and whitish appearance it's burning antifreeze.

I was hoping that it would have enough nice parts that if I decided not to fix it, I could part it out and make some money. There weren't very many nice parts left. It's spent too much time in the sun and commuting on salted roads, 80 miles to SLC and back every day. Half of the car needs repainted, the headliner sags, the wood is cracked and the upholstery has issues. The chrome has worn thin on the grill surround, etc. etc. :( On the bright side, they claim a lot of things work, such as A/C and such.

They've already replaced it with a very nice, almost mint 87 190D 2.5. I'd give them $500 for that! :D

Nobody seems to think it's worth gambling $500 on.

thebenstenator 09-02-2009 10:21 PM

well, I'm getting real close to starting on the head bolts. finally got the intake manifold off. Guess I still have to order that rail pin puller tho, kinda expensive it seems like... and I don't know how to use it :). And i just want to make sure, that pin puller is for the rail guide, not taking the chain apart right?

To get the chain loose I just loosen the 12 pt bolt and take out the upper rail guide and let the chain/sprocket sit right?

Before I take that off I'm gonna try to check for stretch. I got the two marks on the sprocket and... other thing... lined up pretty well, just need to look at the crank pulley correct? I just can't really see it very well so I'm wondering if I have to remove the water pump or something else to get to it properly.

thebenstenator 09-02-2009 10:23 PM

oh, and I almost forgot, what is the turbo oil drain o-ring, is it this?

sixto 09-02-2009 10:32 PM

The pin remove removes the pins holding the upper chain guide (pictures in gsxr's response). If you've removed the injectors, use the heat shields a socket and a long 6mm bolt. Set the socket open side towards the pin, put the bolt through the socket into the pin using enough washers so it doesn't bottom in the pin. Tighten the bolt. At some point the bolt will bottom. Remove the bolt and add washers. Lather rinse repeat until the pin comes free of the head.

To get the chain loose you remove the tensioner. Loosen by the big hex against the block/front cover, not by the smaller hex on the tensioner stem. I think the same 27mm deep socket for injectors works on the tensioner.

Use a flashlight into the crank pulley from about the 11 o'clock position. Spray brake parts cleaner first so you see a distinct pointer and timing marks rather than a cruddy mess. Maybe look at the crank pulley from below as you turn the engine so you see the timing marks embossed on the rubber damper for a better feel of what you're looking for from above.

Since alignment of the cam sprocket and cam tower marks is somewhat subjective, average a half dozen readings, give the engine two full turns between.

Sixto
87 300D

sixto 09-02-2009 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2285131)
oh, and I almost forgot, what is the turbo oil drain o-ring, is it this?

None of your links work for me :/

IIRC it's a green o-ring about 3/4" across. It goes in the slip joint between the drain tube attached to the turbo and the drain tube attached to the block.

Sixto
87 300D

gsxr 09-03-2009 09:30 AM

The turbo oil drain O-rings are item # 350 in the diagram below. There are two of them, part number 012-997-56-48, list price $2.20 each.

The rail pin puller isn't an absolute requirement, the pins can usually be removed with the method Sixto describes. I have the actual puller, I think it was worth the $30 for the reduced hassle.

:chinese2:


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mplafleur 09-03-2009 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2285129)
Guess I still have to order that rail pin puller tho, kinda expensive it seems like... and I don't know how to use it :).

I think it's a great deal. These rail guides and such are held in place by dowl type pins pressed into the block and head. They have a threaded hole on one end. The only way to remove the pin is to thread something into the end of the pin and pull the pin out. If you don't have a tool specific to this task, you have to use a 6mm bolt and a bunch of washers/nuts that have a big enough opening in them for the pin to be pulled in to. When extracting the pin by tightening the bolt, the bolt may bottom out. It it then time to remove the bolt and add a couple of washers so you can start the process over again and extract it out further. I've done it this way an number of times and I say it's time for a tool for me. It's why I also bought a timing chain link press tool.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thebenstenator (Post 2285129)
Before I take that off I'm gonna try to check for stretch. I got the two marks on the sprocket and... other thing... lined up pretty well, just need to look at the crank pulley correct? I just can't really see it very well so I'm wondering if I have to remove the water pump or something else to get to it properly.

For piece of mind, I would replace the chain and not worry about stretch.

gsxr 09-03-2009 09:40 AM

I would still want to measure chain stretch, especially on a 602 engine which is known to have a batch of bad chains from the factory. If it measures beyond spec, then you know it HAS to be replaced. If it's within spec, then it's just optional... on a budget, you could save the ~$150 plus tool rental and just leave it be. They're not like belts which can fail unexpectedly if not changed on schedule...

:ninja:

Brandon_SLC 09-04-2009 12:55 AM

These bad chains on 602s. Over all years? Just one year?

thebenstenator 09-05-2009 12:09 AM

Well I got the head off! It's at a machine shop right now, probably till about Wednesday since Monday's a holiday. But ya, I did it. :):):)

On the timing chain, I did it 6 times with 2 full rotations in between measurements. Lowest i got was 0, highest was just below 3. AVG of about 2. Soo sounds good right?

Anyway, I'm just wondering if there's anything I need to know about reinstalling. I'll clean up the block probably with a paint scraper, definitely change the oil (duh?), and then just hope I can remember how it all goes back :rolleyes:

Questions: Do I need to lube anything with oil before it goes back on (gaskets or whatever), should I clean certain parts or stay away from cleaning certain parts, and how does one go about chasing the threads in the block?

Oh, one last random thing. We ordered new head bolts and it says there are 22, but it only came with 21. So should we just use one of the old ones?? I assume so, but I just wanted to check.

alfa 75 09-05-2009 10:10 AM

Ben, a bit late but I'm in Salt Lake City if you need help.


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