Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 03-17-2010, 12:12 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Waterloo Illinois
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
ps... you should really try to start searching for your answers on other threads. This type of posting on a continuous thread confuses people and they lose interest.

I might be the only one paying attention. And, trust me, its not very helpful if I am the only one answering your questions.

Try posting questions on threads that are related to your question.


Its very difficult on this forum to find threads related to the 4 cylinder OM601 190D. Try searching for topics related to OM603 and 300SDL

this arrangement is much more popular and there is plenty of information regarding it. The OM603 almost identical in many ways.
Thanks I will give it a shot.

Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 03-17-2010, 12:18 AM
Registered Hack
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,642
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 Diesel View Post
TDC is when valve cover off and marks line up with both lifters up on #1 cylinder?
There are 2 TDC moments.

1) when both cam lobes (lifters up) are pointing up. We refer to this as the compression stroke -when fuel delivery occurs

2) 180* on the camshaft from moment #1) which is the exhaust stroke.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 03-17-2010, 12:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Hi, you have some pretty serious symptoms with that engine. Do the test to see if it is blowing oil out the number one cylinder.

Oil out the exhaust pipe if not the headgasket is really not too promising in my opinion. I would forget the state of the injectors, timing etc for the time being and fixate on identification of the oil issue.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 03-17-2010, 10:26 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,423
I was out of the loop on this thread for a while ,reading up on your progress and noticed a good bit has been accomplished.The only one thing I havent seen is the mentioning of your heatshields ,its a little washer that sits down in the injecter chamber ,youll need to pull those with a stick magnet before you do your compression test ,also buy new ones when putting everything back.If it runs bad on start up then idles out after warm up its most likely old injectors spitting fuel when cold then spraying better when warm.To address your question on your vac pump,Sounds like your vps working great.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 03-17-2010, 05:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Waterloo Illinois
Posts: 1,336
I was looking the car over today and thinking about what could be wrong with my car, for the heck of it I thought I check the antifreeze. I opened up and there was pressure and the antifreeze was all gone, I know that there was some in it the other day. I think I have a bad headgasket? That would explain the white smoke, right? What do you guys think? Wouldnt that explain the pressure in the crankcase also?
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 03-17-2010, 06:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Yes it could. I do not know your capabilities. Injecting air into cylinders sometimes indicates where problems are. You could fill the cooling system run the engine and look for bubbles in the coolant.

Bubbles are headgasket or cracked head usually. All I know is you have to address the serious issue first. Untill then playing with the lesser items is just wasted effort. You have indications of a real underlying problem.

The last owner indicated it to you as well. If you do pull the head it must be checked for flatness if it seems to be a headgasket and cracks in the head are not found.

The new rad might be an indication of a headgasket leaking or crack causing the car to run too warm for quite awhile before it got too serious to drive. The owner possibly thought it was just an old tired rad not cooling properly. So it was replaced. One way or another at present it really looks like the head will have to come off. Doing a compression check first is preffereable. I expect there will be a piston top in that engine well washed off anyways.

Pull that number one injector and roll the engine over as well if you have not yet. You want to localise the majority of the issue. Once an engine is apart is usually harder to accomplish. At least for a person like me.

Last edited by barry123400; 03-17-2010 at 06:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 03-17-2010, 07:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Waterloo Illinois
Posts: 1,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by barry123400 View Post
Yes it could. I do not know your capabilities. Injecting air into cylinders sometimes indicates where problems are. You could fill the cooling system run the engine and look for bubbles in the coolant.

Bubbles are headgasket or cracked head usually. All I know is you have to address the serious issue first. Untill then playing with the lesser items is just wasted effort. You have indications of a real underlying problem.

The last owner indicated it to you as well. If you do pull the head it must be checked for flatness if it seems to be a headgasket and cracks in the head are not found.

The new rad might be an indication of a headgasket leaking or crack causing the car to run too warm for quite awhile before it got too serious to drive. The owner possibly thought it was just an old tired rad not cooling properly. So it was replaced. One way or another at present it really looks like the head will have to come off. Doing a compression check first is preffereable. I expect there will be a piston top in that engine well washed off anyways.

Pull that number one injector and roll the engine over as well if you have not yet. You want to localise the majority of the issue. Once an engine is apart is usually harder to accomplish. At least for a person like me.
Ok, pulled #1 injector and cranked motor. Nothing came out but air.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 03-18-2010, 01:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
Well that is not absolutly conclusive but the head gasket is probably not breeched at the oil passage near the number one cylinder. Good going.

Next check for evidence of a steady stream of bubbles in the cooling system after filling it. Watch the surface with the coolant cap off.Leave the coolant cap off from the time of cold engine start. To try to remove the cap after the coolant has gotten hot could be a safety issue.

Even with the coolant cold it might try to blow it out the fill point with your type of indicated problem. People have gotten badly scalded even with a normal engine by removal of the cap while the coolant was hot.

If either of those symptoms are present there are problems with the head or head gasket. I also can think of no reason this car engine would not respond simularily to the 603. Your engine is basically the same with one less cylinder.

Start the car with the coolant system sealed up. Warm the engine to the normal running temperature. Check the hoses for hardness. Shut the engine down.

If the rad hoses are still hard the next morning this indicates a cracked head more than a head gasket. You should be making some progress with these tests. Mention any observations on this site.

Many will be watching to help out. Some of your symptoms are actually good. They indicate the lower block may still be fine with any trouble still confined to the upper portion of the engine at this point. As you follow through on and post on each test. Many members smarter than me will chime in to help as well.

Actually you may have already answered the question earlier. If the engine was cold when you took off the cap and coolant or air expelled rapidly all you will be doing now is isolating the problem to either the head or head gasket before taking the head off.

As a general practice I never take an engine apart until I have established as much as possible what is actually wrong. I work at it until I am certain of where the problem is exactly inside. All kinds of simple tests are engineered as I go along if the easy universal ones do not answer my questions.

Once the basic tests are over we can find out a lot more yet. I have to do this as I am not a working mechanic. That means no instinctive or intuitive knowledge from a lot of day to day experience.

Last edited by barry123400; 03-18-2010 at 01:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 03-18-2010, 01:28 PM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
You don't even have to wait for the engine to get to operating temperature.

Just run the cold engine for a couple of minutes and then remove the coolant system cap. If there is exhaust leaking into the cooling system, there will be some pressure escaping when you loosen the cap.

Mine does this. Whenever I stop my SDL, I have to pop open the hood and relieve the pressure in the cooling system otherwise coolant will leak back into the piston because of the cooling system pressure. removing the cap by hand is no big deal at a temperatur of 80*C. The car will belch smoke until I rev it up to 2000 rpm for a bit and the cylinder starts firing again if I don't do this.
__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 03-21-2010, 11:24 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Waterloo Illinois
Posts: 1,336
Waiting for a service manual and compression tester.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 10-15-2010, 10:15 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1
Curious as to how you got along with this car.

I know some like suggest searching the forums, and I see their point, but I like the story. I learn a lot from following.

Also, gives me motivation and hope haha... keep up the good effort.

Hope your employment worked out too, btw. Good idea to keep busy.

So..., how'd it turn out?
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 10-15-2010, 12:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posts: 6,510
When a thread ends like this one never knows, Since further information was not asked for he may have given up. For some it is a really tough situation if tools have not been aquired over the years first or are easily available otherwise.

Generally it did seem like a bad head gasket or cracked head. Plus he had just basically become unemployed. This is depressing if it went on and it is understandable if interest was lost. I will drop him a private message asking him to update. He may just still read the site from time to time. Decided to drop him an email instead.

Last edited by barry123400; 10-15-2010 at 12:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 10-15-2010, 07:01 PM
piccolovic's Avatar
OLD LADY
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 779
Well, I owned one of those cars . . . . was absolutely great. But, there was a tech notice out on the head gasket. If it's the original head gasket, it should be replaced, anyways. Unless you find bad rings/pistons, I would pull the head and have it completely overhauled by a machine shop. Planed, bad springs/valves replaced, and buy and new headgasket set.

Also, save some money . . . buy your tools at Harbor Freight. For the cost of one socket at SEars, you can purchase an entire deep well socket set - Metric at Harbor Freight. They're all over the country and the internet. Then you can use the savings for buying more parts. Also . . . try running some ATF or injector cleaner through your fuel. The knocking noise as pointed out before is most likely injectors.

Also, that engine has an engine shock in the front.

PS . . . is it a 5 speed, or auto?
__________________
1983 300D, the "Avocado"
1976 240D, 4-spd the "Pumpkin", SOLD to Pierre
1984 190D, 2.2L, 5-spd, my intro to MBZ diesels, crashed into in 2002
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 10-15-2010, 11:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Waterloo Illinois
Posts: 1,336
No, I did not give up. Just out of money. The problem with the motor was the piston skirt on #3 piston broke off and many metal parts in the oil pan. So the po gave me the first motor and that one had a bad headgasket, so the plan is to use the bottom of the second motor and use the head of the first motor. The problem with that is one motor is a 1984 and the other motor is a 1985, so 85 head does not fit the 84 bottom. I am using the 84 bottom of the motor and now trying to save money to buy a 1984 head. I plan on getting this car going again but money is tight, and my wifes 1992 300D needs a new headgasket! So that has to come first, I will do that Tuesday. That is the story, sorry I will keep you up to date. Search-
1984 190D engine, what would cause this damage, pictures


Last edited by 04 Diesel; 10-15-2010 at 11:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page