that's exactly what i'm talking about. on the w201, there were getrag and at least three other non-getrag type manual transmissions. they were of different lengths. so if you are putting a getrag manual meant FOR a w123, into a w123 that originally had a non-getrag manual trans, then you will/may need at least the front half of the prop shaft and the shifter linkages. in other words it's not a direct swap even from the same chassis into the same chassis.

you will almost definitely need at least a front prop shaft, and one may not be made for the w116. you might need to have the front half of the one you have shortened or lengthened and then balanced professionally by a shop that knows what they're doing

dogleg refers to the shift pattern on a shifter. it means that first gear is located back and to the left (not sure if they ever made a RHD version of dogleg--i know they didn't for Mercedes cars, but for other cars). reason for this is that when you are racing on a track, you will usually be shifting from second to fifth, and it's more convenient to have first gear in a separate gate and have the main gears you will be shifting into arranged in an H-pattern.

course if mercedes wanted to go ultra DTM on the 2.3-16v, they'd of put the ignition where the headlight switch is so you can hop into your car, turn it on with left hand and have your right hand to shift into first with

I have the entire shifter assembly with linkage. I had planned on having the W116 driveshaft lengthened.

I now understand! I think it will be okay. I plan on this being a daily driver, not a race car.

That is interesting info, as the OP is talking about a 717.400 installation coming from a 123 and possibly going into a 116 I don't understand how what you're offering is very relavent though.

The 201 and the GETRAG that was used in the 2.3 16V application is unique and could not be installed in a 123 with a factorty installed diesel engine as it will not mate to any 615/616/617 engine. And as the OP has mentioned it might be installed in a 617 powered 116 can't be installed there either. Just for informational purposes the front sectionof the driveshaft in a 126 and a 116 is about a foot loonger than one in the 123 chassis.

The issue with swapping the 5 speed manual tranny into a diesl powered 123 is that the auto tranny driveshaft is to short and the 240D 4 speed driveshaft is too long, the driveshaft from a Euro 300d NA installation is just right, hence my advice to the OP to grab the driveshaft from the car he got the tranny from because the driveshaft from the 280E 123 is identical or very, very close and as such is worth something to people who need a 123 appropriate drive shaft and don't have one.

I've owned and sold now 4-717.400/1 GETRAG tranny installations, a Euro200D, a Euro 300D, a Euro 280TE and a Euro 280SE in addition I've got a complete setup from an 84 Euro 300D NA sitting in my shop now so I'm pretty familiar with the particulars.

None the less, you may need to alter the length of the linkages depending on any difference between the relative engine/shifter positioning dimensions of the 123 chassis from which they came and the relative engine /shifter positioning domensions of the 116 into which you hope to install.

Good to know! I was wondering about this.

Maybe I will get it to resell or use the front section to add to my W116 propeller shaft.

I had planned on altering the linkage length if necessary.

Well it will cost someone at least $300 to modify a 123 shaft to fit, I would think that the shaft from the donor car would be worth about $150 -200 to someone who needed one but didn't have one. I dont think you'll save that much if you use that part to extend the 116 shaft though, in addition the 123 shaft and the 116 shaft maye be different diameters so it might not work for that reason. Most likely the driveshaft shop will cut the ends off the frontand rear sections and take an appropriate size and length of pipe off their shelf and use that to create the spec'd part you want, the advantage is that they can replace universal joints if needed and then dynamically balance the shaft with the rear section.

So if it cost you $300 to build a 116 shaft and you offset that cost by $150-200 selling the 123 shaft that would seem the way to go if you're financially squeezed.

I'll probably pull the propeller shaft when I go back for the headlight wiper assembly and just have my W116 shaft lengthened with tubing.

i got my DS shortened for $90. ask around, most DS shops will work with you

The problem for the OP is not having a driveshaft shortened it is having one lengthend. He doesn't have the luxury of as 123 owners do an overly long 240D manual driveshaft to start with. It's possible to find a driveshaft longer than what he needs from a Euro126 with a four speed manual but I've only ever seen a single one in probably many humdreds of boneyard visits!

Shortening is a much simpler alteration as it only simply removing the end section, then the unnessessary section of pipe to bring things to the proper length, and finally reattachment of the end piece. Carefully done keeping the positioning of the parts intact you can probably get by without even having to balance anything afterwards.

Lengthening involves somehow getting both end pieces square and true ont he appropriate length of straight, true and nominally balanced center pipe and having everything function as a balanced unit in the end, a much more difficult proposition.

It will be interesting to watch how this works out for the OP.

You could take a 18 volt drill with metal cutting holesaw and sit in the seat -make access holes and do it in relative compfort instead ow wallowing in the dirt-Ide take a ribbon cutting air chisel chisel and a hammer too-mabe also a saws all.

you could use the rear section from a donor 123 shorten it and weld on the middle joint from the front section of said donor 123 front section, then use the 116 rear section. then it would be a $90 shortening job

heres a gasser with 5spd, its at parts car price right now for anyone looking to swap

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-200-Series-W123-1984-Mercedes-230E-5-Speed-Manual-Transmission-Euro-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ220647660250QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

That might work at Pull-A-Part if its battery powered. I can't remember if they allow power tools in there. Good idea, though.

That sounds like a good idea.

I can't believe there aren't more bids on that car. That velour interior looks cushy.

The tranny on that car has the starter on the drivers side lest anyone think it can be used on a 615/616/617 application, it has a 102 gas engine same as a 190E 2.3.

Drive shaft might be usable as it's bound to be longer than most, although the trilobe at the end is sized different than the one the 717.400 it needs to mate to.

I assumed they were both the same. The guy that I got my 280 from bought it for the 5 speed. He put in a 240 4 speed and had the prop shaft lengthened. I assume he used the trans from the 240 and it bolted right up to the 280 adapter.

The 280 adapter plate (X 110 XXX XX XX) is definitely different from the 220D/240D/300D adapter plate (X 115 XXX XX XX). It has a different part number, too. The mounting holes from the plate to the engine are identical, as are the two top, the two bottom, two of the side, and the starter holes.

The problem is the 5 speed has two mounting studs that won't allow the bellhousing to seat against the 617 adapter plate. The holes on the left side don't line up, either. It could be made to work by removing the studs on the transmission and not using bolts on the left side. But with the 280 adapter plate it fits perfectly in every way.

Is it possible that the 240 4 spd bell is different than the 280 5 spd?
If that is the case, the guy I got the 280 from must have changed the adapter as well. Can the adapter be removed without removing the flywheel? If so, then he probably kept the 280 adapter with the 5 spd. I thought he only changed the trans and not the flywheel or adapter, and that is why I assumed they were the same.

Yeah, the bellhousings are different. Most of the bolts (not all) line up and the 280 5 speed has extra studs that need holes that the 240/617 etc. plate doesn't have. The flywheel needs to be removed before the adapter plate comes off.

trilobe?

trilobite?

http://www.ideofact.com/archives/trilobite.jpg

ah good to know, I thought all w123 had the starter on the same side regardless of engine.

I swapped the trilobe on my w126 rear to fit my w123 driveshaft, they all seem to be interchangable so easy to swap. My donor trilobe for the w126 rear came from tail of an auto trans.

I just talked with the guy that took the 5 spd out and put a 4 spd in the 280 that I have. He said that he left the adapter, flywheel, clutch and pressure plate in the car and just bolted up the 4 spd (the two upper bolts were a pain) and exchanged the shifter, and lengthened the driveshaft. That's it. Maybe the 4 spd he put in was different? I don't know. He also put a 617 in a gas G wagon without any special adapter. It bolted right up to the trans.

I don't think there would be any difficulty bolting a 4 speed to a car that used to have a 5 speed. The only difference would be the a couple of mounting holes on the left side would be different so you would use one or two less bolts overall. I would post pictures but I have the transmission bolted to the 617 engine and don't want to pull it off just yet.

This is all very interesting to me. Maybe I should try to get a look at my mounting holes to see whats up. It could be that when my friend goes to use the 5 spd in another car, he may wish he had taken the adapter plate from the 280.

I think you are correct. I think the 5 speed will have two guide studs that will be in the way. And at least two holes that don't line up. It could be made to work fairly easily. I am just glad I have the proper adapter plate that works perfectly on both ends.

I went back for the driveshaft and flywheel but they were gone. I think I can use the rear section of a 300SD driveshaft that I think I have somewhere. I tried getting the headlight wipers again but couldn't get them out. Maybe some other time.

I did get a near mint condition blue W123 dashboard, though. I know these are in short supply. There was another W123 240D in there with 4 speed manual transmission and almost mint condition front seats. Most of the blue interior was excellent.

double check the rear of the SD shaft, the 3 bolt flange is a different size between the 126 and 123

I have an automatic transmission out of a W116 300SD and the flange is the same size as the flange on the 5 speed, so I think it is compatible.

I think the deal is the 240D/300D is one flange size, the 280E/300D turbo/300SD is another flange size, and then the 450SEL/420SEL is an even larger flange size, regardless of body style.

sorry I was thinking SDL, SEL, I always get my 124 126 123 xxx's mixed up

I encountered this problem, I bolted a 5-speed, using a welded 4-speed bell pattern to an 80 240 which used to be automatic. The guide pins lined up, but there was one bolt hole over right near the old filter which did not match, and i had to leave one bolt out.

Today I went to look at a 5 speed transmission that is supposed to fit the W113, etc. (ZF S-520). It ended up being a 4 speed instead! :mad:

I've given a lot of thought to this, but I don't think I will be installing the 5 speed into my 300SD. Dare I say it, I don't like manual transmissions. Having to use a clutch, shift, remember what gear I'm in, realizing it's not in gear when the light turns green, trying to force it into a lower gear when slowing down, etc. gets to be annoying.

One of the things I like about the 300SD is never having to use a clutch or shift except for into reverse or park. It's very relaxing. Also, finding the proper flywheel and having it match balanced, buying a clutch kit, installing a different pedal set, lengthening propeller shafts, and maybe even having to change out the differential doesn't seem to be worth it for me.

So, I will probably be selling the 5 speed assembly. I know there are a lot of people that want it and though I don't like to price gouge, in this instance I think I will probably put it on eBay and try to get top dollar for it. I am always broke and sell stuff way too cheaply. Hopefully I can make up for it by selling the 5 speed stuff. I would consider trades for stuff for my W116 or W110, but most of what I need is new stuff (seat skins, paintwork, etc.) so cash would probably be best.

Wasn't I first in line? Let me know! Thanks

Yes, and PM sent.

Allot of folks like the autos best or there wouldn't be so many around;)

heresy :D

Yeah, they are just a shiftless bunch :D.

Charlie

LOL so that would make US "shifty":D

The transmission is SOLD! :D and :cry2:.

What have I done! :)

Now where do I sign up to join the "Used To Have A 5 Speed Club"?

bummer

I know, huh? Fattyman called dibs on it first, so he got first pick. Don't worry, I scour Pull-A-Part frequently and will be on the lookout for another (if I do find another, though, I should start gambling).

I'm going to bump this thread to show prospective buyers what 5 speed I'm talking about in the parts for sale section. I just don't have the time or the lower back to do the swap so I'm selling this one I got from squiggle. Thanks