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#1
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92 300d om602 knock/tick HELP! with video
hello,
looking for some help on a very annoying ticking/knock on the 1992 w124 300d om602 with 181k miles Back story is i purchased the car in august from an old gent with solid service history who needed to sell the car due to his wife having to go to a nursing home. i heard the tick while inspecting the car and to me it sounded like a lifter. i purchased the car and after driving for a month or so the headgasket let go and exhaust gas was leaking into the coolant. i purchased the victor reinz gasket kit as well as new bolts, chain guides, 10 new lifters (Ina/Luk brand). Upon pulling the head i found that coolant had eaten into the aluminum, I then found a pressure/trueness tested head that had been resurfaced that i installed. the car now runs good but it is still ticking. the sound is coming from around cyl #4 (center of engine) does not sound like its coming from vacuum pump or tensioner. i have cracked the injector lines one by one and even disconnected them at the pump one by one. still there. i read the fsm on applying pressure to the lifters with the cam still installed and could not collapse them. not sure if i read it right but it sounded like if bad they would collapse? Before the head went i had changed the oil with NAPA brand 15w40 diesel. after changing the head i changed it to Shell rotella 15w40, and it got the loudest (the video) on Mobil 1 5w40 turbo diesel truck. i changed the oil filter (Mann) each time and the shaft o-rings are new. the oil pressure stays high at 3 on the gauge. running out of ideas and thinking it was a rod bearing or maybe a wrist pin i pulled the engine last night. when i pulled the rod caps the bearings and crank look brand new and i could not feel any play in the wrist pins, when i did the head the cylinders still had nice crosshatching. im going to pull the main caps and get some plastigauge tomorrow but due to the cleanliness of the inside of this engine and what ive seen so far I'm doubtful ill find anything. Cliffnotes: watch the video and give insight/experience. thanks Brenden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez8uSo2_kt4 |
#2
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not a lifter.
sounds like vacuum pump ramp, or belt tensioner to me...
__________________
John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread "as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do! My drivers: 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5Turbo 1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!! 1987 300TD 1987 300TD 1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere! |
#3
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If you un-did the injectors while it was running and the noise was un-affected i would seriously doubt it was a lower end noise. i would suspect a incorrectly adjusted valvetrain component to me. You pulled the engine on a hunch? my hero. Atleast you will know the bottom end is good. Did you listen with a long screw driver or stethoscope to locate the area where the noise is coming from?
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#4
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thanks
i tried listening with a piece of vacuum hose in my ear and it sounded to me to be from the center middle of the engine, but with all the clatter its hard to tell. its not an injector and the valve train isnt adjustable. you put the lifters in and tighten the cam, thats pretty much all there is to it. im fortunate to work in a dealership shop with a boss that doesnt care about working on personal cars. if it was in my home garage i wouldnt have even thought of pulling it, but with a lift it took me about 3 hours. put it in the air, undo everything, lower it undo everything, pull it out.
if it is the vacuum pump ramp, will it be visibly broken? ill take it out tomorrow. |
#5
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Valvetrain parts dont have to be adjustable to be loose
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#6
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I agree that the front of the motor has alot more parts that wear and need investigating .Ive had to replace a belt tensioner shock ,a pulley, a vacuum pump (reason being the arm of the ride for the bearing broke inside )aka no vacuum .These were all repaired on a 2.5 diesel ,completed at different times, and made noises similiar to lifter problems.
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#7
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Try the same thing (reving a little), with it in gear / under load.
I don't think it is tensioner related, too regular, but check to be sure that you can rule it out. It could be mostly anything, wrist pin, rod bearing, lifter collapsed, does not sound combustion related. If it worsens while holding the rpms up a bit under load, a bad sign (such as rod bearing). If it decreases, other possibilities, if the same, ... probably valve-train or vacuum pump. Either way, it is a simple process to pull the vacuum pump and check it visually, since failures of vacuum pumps can be catastrophic.
__________________
Gone to the dark side - Jeff |
#8
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more news
some more news,
the mains look new, the rod bearings are all .002 inch with plastigauge. but i did find the problem. #5 piston has alot of sloppy side to side movement. they all move side to side some but #5 is very sloppy and makes clacking noise as the skirt hits the cyl wall. the wrist pin looks nice and tight. im thinking cracked ring, ringland or piston? i will know in the next few days as i pull the head to get the piston out from the top. i would like to not disturb the crank and IP timing if i can and tiewrap the cam gear to the chain just like i did when removing the head. the weird part is the car didnt smoke or miss and ran great just has the slapping noise. |
#9
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You may want to verify the number five pistons oiler is capable of spraying while in there.
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#10
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Ok
Is that a common problem? How would I get it to spray oil if it's all taken apart? Is there a bench test?
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#11
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Quote:
Try blowing shop air through the nozzle that should tell you. Nice video especially the one with the piston. Whats the plan? I seen on the video comments its been like that for 2 years. Wonder how long it would last? My 2003 Chevy sounded that way from new it clattered louder than my 240D. Some had it some didn't most now have over 200K on them. I wonder if Mercedes went through the same *"ACCEPTABLE" problem. *(dealers words)
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Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !! 86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide 81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor 83 300SD 212,000 parts car 83 300SD 147,000 91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000 66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000 95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000 03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes |
#12
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.
the piston is scored pretty bad in 2 spots from top to bottom about 1/2 inch wide. the cylinder isnt bad at all. i think i can get away with running a ball hone thru it. right now im waiting on a cylinder bore dial gauge so i can check the specs and make sure the hole isnt out of round. i put piston #4 into the #5 hole and it has the same lateral movement as all the others but ill know for sure once i measure it. not sure why it is happening? piston,rings,rod bearing and wrist pin have no signs of cracks or wear and the cylinder still has cross hatch pattern from honing even after 180k miles.
doesnt the oil squirter only shoot at the bottom of the piston for cooling? anyone know of a parts place i can get 1 piston with rings besides the dealer? $400+ for a piston is kind of silly. |
#13
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Perhaps try for one out of a used engine that had a failure unrelated to the pistons. Measure the used piston of course before using it.
Yes the oil from the spray nozzle is aimed at the crown of the piston. Cooling it and reducing overall expansion I would think as well. . If a nozzle were not spraying could account for it. At least it was far from wasted effort to pull the engine. Plus you found a problem. |
#14
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Possibly an overheated piston?
__________________
Gone to the dark side - Jeff |
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