Greetings,

After reading the thread I have a couple of questions. Are CFCs flammable? Are they more flammable than Duracool (hydrocarbons)? Setting aside the EPA concerns (I'm just asking) will Duracool operate well (better than R134) in an auto AC?

Thanks.

One of the main selling points of CFCs as a chemical class was that they were basically inert/nonflammable. However, the oil contained in the A/C system can be quite flammable if a sudden leak turns it to mist.

The official non-CFC refrigerant, R134a, is also flammable under certain circumstances.

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1981 Mercedes 300TD, 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol
http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/67195.pnghttp://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/103885.png

Great.

Anyone have any knowledge about running Duracool type refrigerants in an auto?

"In an auto" is a very wide market, with plenty of variation. What kind of car?

If you have a factory 134a system, don't expect better performance from Duracool. It will work as a refrigerant, but it won't work as well as the design refrigerant.

I've been sticking my head in from time-to-time and when they mentioned using a propane/butane blend as a refrigerant I became curious.

If a car was designed for R12, say a MB before 1995 (I think that's the right date) and it's been converted to 134 would duracool work.

Also, for the moment setting aside the EPA, would 18 oz of propane at 10 to 15 atmospheres in an auto AC be a significant hazard?

I know it's an ambiguous question. My system and my previous car work well on R134a and I have no reason to change it. But some people are saying their auto ACs aren't making it on R134a and I am just wondering (can't recommend this to others - just want to understand) if duracool is a possible answer.

There are pictures floating around the web of a Porsche that had an underhood fire after the radiator fan sliced a refrigerant line. The system was charged with a propane mix. So it is possible for bad things to happen. Can't say what the real-world risk of injury is.

I seriously considered it for my Cabriolet, which has an R12 system. I think for me the risks with a system that's in good shape might be acceptable, but I decided I would have to be crazy to put propane in a system that I already knew must be leaking.

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1981 Mercedes 300TD, 1994 Honda Civic Del Sol
http://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/67195.pnghttp://mefi.us/images/fuelly/smallsig-us/103885.png

First A/C post of the season.

I believe Europeans build household refrigerators with propane as a refrigerant.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Amonia used to be the most common refrigerant, very flammable.

Ethylene-Glycol (anti-freeze) is also flammable when concentrated and hot enough.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

But their household refrigerators never get over 20 mph......

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1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=10414

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=156207&highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

The ones in RVs do, and they're ammonia-evaporators heated by a propane flame.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Are their condensors mounted on the roof perhaps ?

__________________
1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=10414

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=156207&highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

No, directly above the flame on the back of the refrigerator, with kiln-dried wood and fiberglass walls next to them.

There's a reason that I've never owned a plastic-palace motorhome. Actually several reasons.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

In post 11 you indicated the flame heated the evaporator...

are you saying the condensor is also in the heat path ? or Perhaps misread my last question ?

__________________
1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=10414

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=156207&highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

It is above it, but there is a chimney through the evaporator/boiler that takes the heat around and above the rest of the coils.

I don't really understand all of the plumbing on the back of these things, I have had a couple go bad in my buses over the years, pull them out and there are lots of steel tubes running around on the back of the cabinet.

Fortunately they went to household side-by-side referigerators in buses back in the '90s, but most RVs still use the ammonia systems so that they can cool without electricity using the propane flame.

I understand that there was a lot of ammonia used in commercial refrigeration also until fairly recently.

__________________

Gone to the dark side

- Jeff