AC NOT COOLING - 1982 300-SD - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

leathermang · #16 06-20-2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyko46

Please, tell me the quantities of oil and, in this case for the suggested R12.
Does your car use 134a or R12?
In my case I am sure that after condenser, the receiver IS NOT receiving the compressed gas in form of fluid as supposed and after receiver the same compressed gas is reaching the expansion valve and automaticaly not expanding fluid because gas is going there instead fluid.
How come many cars are converted to 134a and it work very fine?
Is Mercedes an exception?

You have to have a certain amount of refrigerant in the car in order for the compressor to turn part of it into liquid..... so you have not gotten to that amount according to what you have said... thus you can not fault the parts of the system which otherwise might be causing you to not get liquid at the TxValve... you are jumping ahead on your complaint too far.
In Texas only if in perfect condition and great condensor and aux fan in my opinion would r134a be ok... not great. but ok...in an old Mercedes....

Be sure to answer Vstech's QUESTIONS the NEXT TIME YOU POST. Each ONE.

nyko46 · #17 06-20-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

ok.
if you want us to help you, you are going to have to provide specific information.
where did you put the oil in the system.
how much oil is in the system.
how much refrigerant is in the system?
what type of oil specifically is in the system now.
if it's got pag in it, you cannot change back to 12 unless you replace the compressor.

14 oz 134 is not enough. 17 oz oil is too much.

Let me go from the begining.
I will have it cleaned and flushed again.
How much and where should put the oil ?
How much 134a should I put in the system?
What is the appropriated pressure for low and high side?

leathermang · #18 06-20-2011, 04:24 PM

You should put NO R134a into your system.....
LOL

and once again, you DID NOT answer VsTech's questions....

SD Blue · #19 06-20-2011, 05:39 PM

I tried to find your refrigerant and oil capacities on-line but after scratching around for several minutes, I gave up temporarily. (It seems no one keeps any kind of readily available records for anything prior to '89.)

However, I do recall that Haynes lists a capacity of 56oz for refrigerant and 9oz for oil. (These are for R12 in the 84-86 300SD.)

To keep from the repeated purging and recharging, which necessitates replacing of the receiver-drier every time, try to locate the capacities for your system. So far, the only place I have found this is in the Haynes Automotive Air Conditioning Manual. (I'm sure there are other sources but haven't found them yet.) When I return home this evening, I'll try to remember to look it up and report back.

SD Blue · #20 06-21-2011, 01:04 AM

This is according to Haynes Automotive Heating and Air Conditioning Manual:

1982 300SD Refrigerant Oil Capacity (in ounces) 7.0 to 9.0
Refrigerant Capacity (in ounces) 56.0 (R12)

Rule of Thumb guide for adding oil to individual components when replacing:
Condenser - 1oz
Receiver-drier - 1oz
Evaporator - 3oz
"It's important to note that, since oil distributes itself throughout the system during operation, it isn't absolutely necessary to add the oil to the component being replaced, With one notable exception, as long as the amount of oil lost during the replacement procedure is added somewhere, the system will be fine. The exception? The compressor. If the compressor is being replaced, always put the oil into the compressor and not somewhere else."

(Cost of Haynes Manual $6 at Half Price Book Store)

vstech · #21 06-21-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyko46

Let me go from the begining.
I will have it cleaned and flushed again.
How much and where should put the oil ?
How much 134a should I put in the system?
What is the appropriated pressure for low and high side?

R4 compressor A/C system OIL charge Per WIS: 83-520
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=282911

the 82 300SD has a capacity of 3.3Lbs R12, which is 52.8 oz, 80% for R134 is 42.2Oz. no surprise that 15 oz would provide ZERO cooling.

Pressures are variable based on load in the car, and temp outside the car. airflow across the condenser, and cleanliness of the condenser and evaporator coils. but the ideal is around 38 low, 250 high.

nyko46 · #22 06-21-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

R4 compressor A/C system OIL charge Per WIS: 83-520
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=282911

the 82 300SD has a capacity of 3.3Lbs R12, which is 52.8 oz, 80% for R134 is 42.2Oz. no surprise that 15 oz would provide ZERO cooling.

Pressures are variable based on load in the car, and temp outside the car. airflow across the condenser, and cleanliness of the condenser and evaporator coils. but the ideal is around 38 low, 250 high.

I realy liked your information.
It was precize and helpful. As I am planning to have the whole system flushed again, do I need to replace my new receiver again?
The reason why I am going to flush the system is because I have no idea how much oil I have in it and I do not want to waste much more time and money adding refrigerant not knowing the amount of oil I have in the system.
After geting the new compressor drained, I will put 8 oz of PAG 150 in it and that is it. As informed by other guys from this site, oil ONLY in the compressor even with the system completely cleaned and empty.
Thanks for your search about the quantities of oil and refrigerant to this car AC system. If there are any other detail that I have forgot, please send me a message. I will be doing this job probably this coming Friday and I hope be the last time this year. After everything working fine I will do in another MB 1984 300SD which need new compressor, receiver, expansion valve a good flushing. By the way, how is the best way to test a AC thermal switch for the auxiliary fan when suspected for working condition?

nyko46 · #23 06-21-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Blue

This is according to Haynes Automotive Heating and Air Conditioning Manual:

1982 300SD Refrigerant Oil Capacity (in ounces) 7.0 to 9.0
Refrigerant Capacity (in ounces) 56.0 (R12)

Rule of Thumb guide for adding oil to individual components when replacing:
Condenser - 1oz
Receiver-drier - 1oz
Evaporator - 3oz
"It's important to note that, since oil distributes itself throughout the system during operation, it isn't absolutely necessary to add the oil to the component being replaced, With one notable exception, as long as the amount of oil lost during the replacement procedure is added somewhere, the system will be fine. The exception? The compressor. If the compressor is being replaced, always put the oil into the compressor and not somewhere else."

(Cost of Haynes Manual $6 at Half Price Book Store)

Thanks for this very good information.
I will have the entire system flushed again and the compressor drained.
From there I will add oil to the compressor ONLY.
Talking about compressor, should it be oil filled through the discharge and suction ports or through the oil plug?
My compressor is a R4 style and brand new. It looks exactly as the Delco from MB. More exactly is a Four Season # 58-228.
It is already installed in the car but I want to remove it and have it drained.
Thanks.

leathermang · #24 06-21-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyko46

From there I will add oil to the compressor ONLY.

Talking about compressor, should it be oil filled through the discharge and suction ports or through the oil plug?

YOUR COMPRESSOR HAS NO SUMP... NO PLACE TO HOLD ALL THAT OIL .....YOU ARE GOING TO COST YOURSELF MORE MONEY IF YOU DO NOT GET SOMEONE TO HELP YOU LOCALLY WHO CAN READ AND UNDERSTAND ENGLISH.

NO ONE HAS SAID ONLY PUT THE OIL INTO THE COMPRESSOR...

THEY HAVE ALL SAID SPREAD THE OIL AROUND THE SYSTEM.. THAT IS BECAUSE YOUR COMPRESSOR CAN NOT HOLD THE OIL INSIDE ITSELF.

nyko46 · #25 06-21-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyko46

Thanks for this very good information.
I will have the entire system flushed again and the compressor drained.
From there I will add oil to the compressor ONLY.
Talking about compressor, should it be oil filled through the discharge and suction ports or through the oil plug?
My compressor is a R4 style and brand new. It looks exactly as the Delco from MB. More exactly is a Four Season # 58-228.
It is already installed in the car but I want to remove it and have it drained.
Thanks.

This EDUCATED member is writing in ENGLISH.
If you can, read his polite reply:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showpost.php?p=2738886&postcount=20

nyko46 · #26 06-21-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

YOUR COMPRESSOR HAS NO SUMP... NO PLACE TO HOLD ALL THAT OIL .....YOU ARE GOING TO COST YOURSELF MORE MONEY IF YOU DO NOT GET SOMEONE TO HELP YOU LOCALLY WHO CAN READ AND UNDERSTAND ENGLISH.

NO ONE HAS SAID ONLY PUT THE OIL INTO THE COMPRESSOR...

THEY HAVE ALL SAID SPREAD THE OIL AROUND THE SYSTEM.. THAT IS BECAUSE YOUR COMPRESSOR CAN NOT HOLD THE OIL INSIDE ITSELF.

This EDUCATED member is writing in ENGLISH.
If you can, read his polite reply:

__________________
Nyck - TX - USA

nyko46 · #27 06-21-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD Blue

This is according to Haynes Automotive Heating and Air Conditioning Manual:

1982 300SD Refrigerant Oil Capacity (in ounces) 7.0 to 9.0
Refrigerant Capacity (in ounces) 56.0 (R12)

Rule of Thumb guide for adding oil to individual components when replacing:
Condenser - 1oz
Receiver-drier - 1oz
Evaporator - 3oz
"It's important to note that, since oil distributes itself throughout the system during operation, it isn't absolutely necessary to add the oil to the component being replaced, With one notable exception, as long as the amount of oil lost during the replacement procedure is added somewhere, the system will be fine. The exception? The compressor. If the compressor is being replaced, always put the oil into the compressor and not somewhere else."

(Cost of Haynes Manual $6 at Half Price Book Store)

Thanks SD Blue:
You gave a classical reply; polite, friendly, clear and easy to understand. Thanks and congrats.

leathermang · #28 06-21-2011, 07:00 PM

Here is that post by SDBlue:

YOU ARE NOT READING IT CORRECTLY .

:::This is according to Haynes Automotive Heating and Air Conditioning Manual:

1982 300SD Refrigerant Oil Capacity (in ounces) 7.0 to 9.0
Refrigerant Capacity (in ounces) 56.0 (R12)

Rule of Thumb guide for adding oil to individual components when replacing:
Condenser - 1oz
Receiver-drier - 1oz
Evaporator - 3oz
"It's important to note that, since oil distributes itself throughout the system during operation, it isn't absolutely necessary to add the oil to the component being replaced, With one notable exception, as long as the amount of oil lost during the replacement procedure is added somewhere, the system will be fine. The exception? The compressor. If the compressor is being replaced, always put the oil into the compressor and not somewhere else.":::

It is talking about a situation where the system has not been flushed... it is talking about when ONE ITEM in a system needs to be replaced and how you deal with the amount of oil and where to put it back into the system....
One must also be careful when quotes are picked out of a book that it is still referring to the type of compressor you have...since the R4 is an exception to the standard compressors which DO have an oil sump in them.
When they say ' the component' that is the indicator they are not addressing a full flush as you have done to your car...
But it is your car and you are free to do whatever you want with it...

nyko46 · #29 06-21-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Here is that post by SDBlue:

YOU ARE NOT READING IT CORRECTLY .

:::This is according to Haynes Automotive Heating and Air Conditioning Manual:

1982 300SD Refrigerant Oil Capacity (in ounces) 7.0 to 9.0
Refrigerant Capacity (in ounces) 56.0 (R12)

Rule of Thumb guide for adding oil to individual components when replacing:
Condenser - 1oz
Receiver-drier - 1oz
Evaporator - 3oz
"It's important to note that, since oil distributes itself throughout the system during operation, it isn't absolutely necessary to add the oil to the component being replaced, With one notable exception, as long as the amount of oil lost during the replacement procedure is added somewhere, the system will be fine. The exception? The compressor. If the compressor is being replaced, always put the oil into the compressor and not somewhere else.":::

It is talking about a situation where the system has not been flushed... it is talking about when ONE ITEM in a system needs to be replaced and how you deal with the amount of oil and where to put it back into the system....
One must also be careful when quotes are picked out of a book that it is still referring to the type of compressor you have...since the R4 is an exception to the standard compressors which DO have an oil sump in them.
When they say ' the component' that is the indicator they are not addressing a full flush as you have done to your car...
But it is your car and you are free to do whatever you want with it...

It was a good point:
If the total quatity is 7oz - 9oz and Condenser - 1oz, Receiver-drier - 1oz
Evaporator - 3oz, then there will be only 2oz to 4oz left to the compressor.
Are this math correct?

leathermang · #30 06-21-2011, 07:33 PM

Yes, that is more in keeping with standard procedure for the R4..
however, you should measure the amount you try to put into the R4 and if it will not take and keep that much... add that amount not put into the compressor back so the total amount in the system is correct.. it will then distribute itself around as it wants to based on the physics of the inner workings..... if that is the case.. compressor not holding the amount you expect to add... then I would put half the extra oil into the evaporator so that is it downstream of the Txvalve and upstream of the compressor. The other half of the ' extra' I would put into the rec-dry if it will fit...