240D 4 speed shifting issues (4 speed)
 

Well the 240D is having shifting issues. It is not wanting to go into 1st and when it does it, according to my step dad, pops out. I just drove it around and I had issues getting into first and when it would go into first it didn't pop out for me.

help?

Did you try pumping the clutch?

When was the last time those bushings were renewed ... and the shifting forks aligned ?

Check your linkages too....might have a bad bushing on that arm and its not fully engaging. (leathermang beat me to the save changes button)

well, I do know I need to change the bushings on the shifter end (on the rod) The bushings on the transmission end looked new and in place.

I could go pop them on in the dark, I just don't know how to remove those weird clips on the end of the rods.

What about pumping the clutch?

I did not do that. I am sitting on my laptop at the moment, not in the car. What will that do, show, etc?

If there is a problem with the clutch hydraulic system, causing the clutch not to fully release, pumping the clutch(like pumping the brakes) will produce enough hydraulic pressure to make it function correctly for a few seconds.

ok I'll go try that

It will show that the clutch doesn't have air in the line. If it works when you do....you need to bleed it. If it does it again you might have a slave cylinder with a seal failing allowing an air bubble to get in when you release the clutch.

Yip, been there done that.

just went out and tried pumping the clutch. Didn't help at all. I can get into all other gears just fine.

Then the problem is most likely transmission related and not clutch related.

arrrghhhhhh!

You know first gear is not necessary.

what do you mean? I know the automatics do a second gear start. First is to just get the car going.

I still need to figure out this issue.

Three speeds work just as well as four speeds. Just don't stop on steep hills.

Is this problem only occurring when you attempt to shift into First from Neutral? Can you smoothly downshift into First?

I didn't try down shifting into 1st.

I just don't want any more issues. I am going to call my mechanic tomorrow and see what we can do to fix the issue.

Soonest I can get to him is next Tuesday.

My step dad drives a large bread truck every day so he should be fine with just 3 speeds. With the aveo issue I am loosing more faith in myself with cars :(

If you had rebuilt the trans and it had failed, that would be one thing. This falls under the category of *hit happens...

I would still get the top hat bushing ASAP and, if the trans needs to be pulled, this would be a good opportunity to renew the bushings.

I guess I will have to get the top hat bushing tomorrow. I'll call my usual parts guy and them Pierre. I just can't have the car out of commission ya know. My step dad has to drive to work 5 days a week at 2am

Question to the board re: 240D 4-speeds: Any relationship between engine/trans mount condition and transmission shifting characteristics? Would one or more bad mounts create a transmission vs. shift linkage alignment issue and cause linkage binding, and/or failure of the linkage to fully engage a gear?

....sounds reasonable to me.......if the mounts are bad, then the motor/gearbox could possibly move enough to cause problems.

Since they are suspended together I do not think so..
but when you are up under there to put in the linkage bushings .. it is generally easy to set the alignment ... usually one moves the arms to a place with will allow the placement of a pin or something... a starting point...

someone (honestly, it wasn't me!) put manual tranny fluid in my gearbox because it was low when i got it ... and then i lost the ability to go into second.

once i got control of my car ... i fixed that error and put in some nice high end redline. i have all the gears again. but second is still a pain. i think the synchro was broken off it awhile ago.

what i'm trying to say is ... do you have the right gear oil in there? helpful mechanics are not always working for your best interests.

I need to change the gear oil. I just inspected the flex discs and center carrier bearing and all are good.

How do I remove those clips on the end of rod so I can put those bushings in. Should I put the bushings in hot water to soften them for easier install?

Glad I still have my haynes manual for the w123. Looked in the trouble shooting section and for difficulty engagning gears it lists

1) clutch not releasing completely
2) loose, damaged, or out of adjustment shift linkages
3) input shaft bearing seized

for slipping out of gear

1) transmission loose on clutch housing
2) shift rods not working freely
3) dirt between transmission case and engine or misalignment of transmission
4) worn or improperly adjusted linkages
5) work synchro units.


I will have to get those bushings on the ends. I need a 6mm diameter rod to put into the alignment holes for the shifter fingers.

I do not envy you if you rebuild that shifter. I just rebuilt the one for my parent's 240d. The auto shifter is a BREEZE compared to the 4spd. This one has two cupped spring washers, plus two flat washers that you have to get into place, then align in order to insert the main shifter rod.

So, if you're going to take it apart to replace the main "tophat" bushing, go ahead and look at EPC, get all the rest of them. There's a trapezoidal one, then a nylon plug that sets inside the rod assembly. Also a dampening bushing that fits around the lever shaft...


Yeah, I spent about $45 on parts for the rebuild. But it feels brand new and I won't have to take it apart for a while.

well right now I just have the proper bushings for the shift rod ends on the shifter end. I am not sure how to remove those clips soo that is what I need to know.

Oh... those are easy. :)

Flat head screw driver in them and slide off the end of the rod.

And to align the fingers, just you a drill bit or a nail.

guess who is going to install bushings at 1am?!... I need to find a nail and or my calipers to verify that it is 6mm. Wish I had a drill index... darn

Pfff. Poke something in the holes until it fits.... :)

The rod that Andrew (BioD) ships with his SLS valve oring kits is the same thing. Just in case you have one of those handy...

I do not have one of those things that andrew ships. I'll see what I can find. im going to go install the bushings in a few minutes.


I'm going to install them later, my step dad has to leave for work in an hour and I should probably get some sleep. It shifts fine into and out of the other gears just fine.

I have a nifty set of seal pullers I used for pulling the hydraulic line clips on the cabrio that I can use to remove those clips on the rod and I'll see what I have as far as drill bits and 6mm diameter rods. As well as order the top hat bushing and call Pierre tomorrow.

What happened? Inquiring minds want to know...

It's good that you have the Haynes manual- this area is one of the few where it really comes in handy. If you are going to the dealer for the top hat, that other flat trapeziodial one is also very likely to be bad. They made them out of some cheesy kind of plastic that gets brittle. I didn't find messing with the mechanism very hard once you understand the principle. When it is working properly it will make a big difference.

Careful with those clips, if they are old and have seen a corrosive environment, they can easily break.

If you order new ones, they are a different design that is somewhat more difficult to remove, but a little more secure.

As said above, super easy to remove. Flat head screwdriver to push up the tab, hand or pair of pliers to pull the clip off the slotted groove on the linkage.

Bushings on the trans side will push in and pop in place with little effort, no heat or prep work is needed, bushings on the shifter side will do the same.

To replace all six bushings and all six clips only takes a few minutes

Once that is done, and the most obvious issue that needs to be fixed is resolved, then you can go further into what could be ailing the tranny, but its better to eliminate this as a contributing factor. The tranny has 3 side linkages, each with its own bushing, the issue with first could very well be the fact that the bushing on 1-2 shift arm is more worn that the others. However, since its an old car with an old manual tranny, you might as well prepare yourself for potentially larger issues, because its definitely a possibility.

On the plus side, these 4-speed boxes are so light that working on them is a breeze. I think a 240 4-speed weighs something like 50-60 lbs, very easy to remove to get at the clutch, or replace and rebuild

There were two types, one that had a separate bellhousing and cast iron box (made by MB, I think) and an all alloy one piece unit made by Getrag. Joe's should be the cast iron one, more like 60-70 lbs

I really hope it's not a big issue. I do not want to have to get another transmission or rebuild this one. :(


on the shifter arms on the transmission, which way should the big bushing end be

...nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Don't stress over it. I am thinking a complete rebuild of the linkage/lever may solve it.

talking to fields mercedes. they like me when I call since I have epc open :)

parts needed for a complete shifter mechanism bushing refresh and shifter rods.
Part numbers and prices(may vary from dealership to dealership) listed below

top hat (115 267 07 50).....$10
trapezoid (115 267 06 76) ......$11
super small bushing ( 115 267 22 50) ......$29
clips ( 000 994 29 60) $6 each .... $1.89 (online)
bushings for the shifter rod end ( 115 992 01 10) .....$0.71(online)
bushings for transmission arms ( 000 992 05 10) .....$0.58 (online)

Ripoff ...what did you expect ....it's a Mer-say-deeeeez. And they LIKE you?

Well how often does a customer call with actual part numbers lol... I'll call my trusted parts guy that is in Cali that doesn't jack the prices of OEM parts through the roof.

I didn't even bother calling Mercedes Benz at Millenia. Now those guys are real ass hats

Linkage bushings first.

Will do!, I still need to order that top hat and such. I would rather use the correct bushing than what I have.

I hope I do not break any of those stupid clips.

Just Ordered the following

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74...23bushings.jpg

3 of the clips and one each of the highlighted items... $20 plus freight. I should see the stuff Wednesday.

Total price to R&R a shifter mechanism and linkages should run you about $25-$30 with shipping. Lets hope this solves my issue.

looks good for going in blindly....

What year is this 240? If you have the old Iron Box, the the shift arm off the transmission is clamped to the shaft coming out of the transmission. The shaft has splines that line up inside the arm, and held on with a bolt. the bolt might have come loose allowing the arm for 1 -2 shift to be loose. mine was on my 80 240, tightened the bolt and fixed it.

The later all aluminum boxes have a bolt in the center of the arm that bolts into the box. check to make sure these are tight.

Having worn Bushing over a long period of time may have taken a toll on the synchros.


Charlie

it's an 82.. The picture I just posted in EPC is how my transmission looks.

missing shift bushings can be a bad thing for the synchros? had no idea.

Also can someone tell me what gear oil and how much to put in it... Just tell me don't get into a heated debate!

well, the bushings in there are most likely original and probably shot so might as well replace them.


I also hope this becomes a very useful thread. I had a hard time searching for issues related to the shifter and issues from bad bushings. -fingers crossed- that the bushings help.