roll call on 123 five speeds - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Billybob · #1 09-10-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

You too can be part of the five speed club!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3984Q2em1555Q2el2649QQitemZ130572998284QQsspagenameZSTRKQ3aMESELXQ3aIT

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Here is the quote from the add:

Greetings , This is a benz 5 speed from a 309D truck , Its sometimes called the "military box" and would work in conversions using the om-616 or om-617 in g-wagens some Unimogs and jeeps -or those cool old landcruisers , whatever else the monster shop minded swapper wants to convert. It uses u joints on the back instead of Benz style rubber flex disc couplings. This is a truck transmission and not suitable for a 300d or 300sd car.
This also bolts right up to the 280ge twin cam gas 6 cylinder with the starter on the passenger side, However I think one less bolt is used at the bellhousing to engine back plate, and the gas engine does not use this rare 5 cyl diesel flywheel either.
Yes-Thats the hard to find 37lb 5 cyl flywheel next to it, not the 240d one. The flywheel cost me $500 to have sent from Germany, so I will just have to get counseling for having to let this stuff go. I can ship this Greyhound to the closest terminal that does greyhound package express. This whole package is a good bit less weight that a benz auto tranz, Im gonna estimate the weight at 115lb. shipping cost is extra on top of the winning bid. one shipping quote i got was $111 to holleywood Fl via greyhound package express.

best we can do with the pictures, they won`t enlarge. But hold the control key (ctrl) and roll the wheel on the mouse an it will enlarge the page.

Charlie

Regarding this “Five Speed Tranny” I would be very surprised if it is in fact five forward speeds and a reverse. Every Mercedes 717.XXX transmission I have owned or seen or seen pictures or diagrams of either the early iron cased (that this one appears to be) or the later aluminum cased i.e. GETRAGs has an extended aluminum tail housing within which the 5th gear and the Reverse gear reside and operate. This extension housing adds about 4-6” to the tranny’s overall length. At least from the pictures included it does not appear that this type of extension housing is on this tranny. If you look closely at the pictures of the tail section it appears to be the standard short 716.XXX tail section with some type of bracket bolted to it for that truck type shifter. For easy reference, the MB FSM Clutches and Transmissions as well as the Haynes 123 Manual depict this pretty clearly.

In addition to the lack of the physical space for the fifth gear it also appears that the arrangement of the shift rods and shift arms at the tranny are set up for the standard four speed operation. With the 416.XXX transmissions the center/lower shifter fork operating lever usually extends upward as depicted in the photo, that fork/lever has only two positions “Reverse engaged and unengaged” on a 717.XXX that fork lever extends downward and has three positions “fifth engaged- neutral-Reverse engaged”.

The owner does not say in the auction or on this forum that he ever drove the vehicle from which this tranny came from, he makes no claim of its condition or even that it operates. Interestingly it sounds like the flywheel usually installed with a proper 5 speed was obtained separately from Germany which offers the question “If the tranny came from a vehicle that had a 5 speed installed by MB wouldn’t the correct flywheel be available to whoever removed the tranny?” Absent some statement to the fact that while in an operating vehicle in motion he personally shifted the tranny through each of its 5 forward gears I’d be pretty skeptical especially with at least $800 on the barrel head and a “no Returns Accepted” policy stated in the auction. Every MB tranny I’ve ever seen is identified by numbers stamped on its case usually a tranny family number i.e. 716.XXX or 717.XXX and a standard MB 10 digit part number also. I have seen MB rebuilt auto trannies with the original numbers ground off and replaced by an affixed aluminum tag stamped with new numbers, usually attached somewhere on the bell housing. If doesn’t seem from the pictures or the description that this tranny has such a history.

Maybe the tranny was picked up separately already pulled from a chassis and at quick glance it looked “5-speedy”, maybe it even has a “5-speed” shift knob, but I’ll be watching this thread to see if a more complete pedigree is revealed or if my suspicions are confirmed, either way anybody considering this tranny would be advised to do their own homework before parting with their cash to avoid a potentially unpleasant surprise when it arrives on the doorstep after paying another $100+ in shipping.

Maybe paZZer has some rare sub-specie of 5-speed that few have ever seen or documented, maybe not, he could do more to clear that up if it matters.

panZZer · #2 09-10-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

Regarding this “Five Speed Tranny” I would be very surprised if it is in fact five forward speeds and a reverse. Every Mercedes 717.XXX transmission I have owned or seen or seen pictures or diagrams of either the early iron cased (that this one appears to be) or the later aluminum cased i.e. GETRAGs has an extended aluminum tail housing within which the 5th gear and the Reverse gear reside and operate. This extension housing adds about 4-6” to the tranny’s overall length. At least from the pictures included it does not appear that this type of extension housing is on this tranny. If you look closely at the pictures of the tail section it appears to be the standard short 716.XXX tail section with some type of bracket bolted to it for that truck type shifter. For easy reference, the MB FSM Clutches and Transmissions as well as the Haynes 123 Manual depict this pretty clearly.

In addition to the lack of the physical space for the fifth gear it also appears that the arrangement of the shift rods and shift arms at the tranny are set up for the standard four speed operation. With the 416.XXX transmissions the center/lower shifter fork operating lever usually extends upward as depicted in the photo, that fork/lever has only two positions “Reverse engaged and unengaged” on a 717.XXX that fork lever extends downward and has three positions “fifth engaged- neutral-Reverse engaged”.

The owner does not say in the auction or on this forum that he ever drove the vehicle from which this tranny came from, he makes no claim of its condition or even that it operates. Interestingly it sounds like the flywheel usually installed with a proper 5 speed was obtained separately from Germany which offers the question “If the tranny came from a vehicle that had a 5 speed installed by MB wouldn’t the correct flywheel be available to whoever removed the tranny?” Absent some statement to the fact that while in an operating vehicle in motion he personally shifted the tranny through each of its 5 forward gears I’d be pretty skeptical especially with at least $800 on the barrel head and a “no Returns Accepted” policy stated in the auction. Every MB tranny I’ve ever seen is identified by numbers stamped on its case usually a tranny family number i.e. 716.XXX or 717.XXX and a standard MB 10 digit part number also. I have seen MB rebuilt auto trannies with the original numbers ground off and replaced by an affixed aluminum tag stamped with new numbers, usually attached somewhere on the bell housing. If doesn’t seem from the pictures or the description that this tranny has such a history.

Maybe the tranny was picked up separately already pulled from a chassis and at quick glance it looked “5-speedy”, maybe it even has a “5-speed” shift knob, but I’ll be watching this thread to see if a more complete pedigree is revealed or if my suspicions are confirmed, either way anybody considering this tranny would be advised to do their own homework before parting with their cash to avoid a potentially unpleasant surprise when it arrives on the doorstep after paying another $100+ in shipping.

Maybe paZZer has some rare sub-specie of 5-speed that few have ever seen or documented, maybe not, he could do more to clear that up if it matters.

There are no #s on the machined flat below the shifter rod cover like there are supposed to be, I asked Kerry about his 30?d truck and he couldn't tell me, what his five speed looked like--a 4 speed box? Reverse is top left according to the knob pattern, I should have slathered it with diesel and cleaned it but im pretty busy at the moment--anybody who knows where other #s may be please let me know, one guy asked if its got straight cut gears or helical I havent taken any covers off-I dont want to go chasing gaskets The extension housing BB refirs to --is this for the flat case -or a sloping case box? This truck had the 37lb flywheel on it. I bought another from Guido -industrial tools in Germany, the G wagen supplier.
The only trucks like this I know are owned/run by Sunvalley mercedes salvage in Sunvalley ca --I dont think they are exactly like this--
this is the only 309D I have ever seen that is the same chassis body as what is usually the 207d 208d 209d 307d 308d. all other 309d's are like WHunters bus . I called and asked -They said theirs were 5 speed and the boxes looked like the sloping case like this. As stated this is not a car transmission and is not suitable for a car.