Could someone also share the links to the tool and instructions as to how to do this correctly then? I love how people come on here telling you how your doing it all wrong, there is a better way but, don't actually give you the specific information or steps to do what they are talking about. The steps I shared above where after at a least 3 hour of searching the web for an answer to the problem so I didn't have to goto the dealer to make the car run.

Other than the dealer there are no mechanics in the Chattanooga area that can service these cars. There is one shop that claims they can, but they will not do timing chains, IP timing etc, (basically they won't do anything more than what you can do yourself like minor tune ups etc) I know, I've talked to them. And, from what I have gleamed from them in those talks, they are doing the same thing we are, looking up the information as they need to. (In a few cases I've had to explain the part to them etc, so I know they have no clue what they are doing if I'M the expert...)

In fact, there are no places around here that can even check or service the transmission in my 99 E320 either, other than the dealer. None have the dip stick.

This is the port and the tang on the M pump (courtesy of Dave).

http://www.w124performance.com/image...__RIV_tang.jpg

The MW pump on the 617 has the same port in the same place on the '84.

You can see the tang in the center of the port if you use a mirror and a strong light. The tang is generally utilized with the A-B lights to find it electronically. When the tang is directly in the middle of the port, the timing should be:

15 Degrees AFTER TDC

Yes, it is correct.

That person would be me.

I asked you point blank if you wanted to do the proper job with a more accurate method:

Here is your response:


So, why would anyone make the effort to research and post the specific information required, if you're clearly not going to use it?

We've posted plenty of information for you in the past. You ignore the information provided and do it your own way. That's why you're installing a new engine. One of these days, you'll realize that we do have some knowledge of which we speak and it's your obligation to clarify any details for which you don't fully understand. We generally lead a horse to water............we don't make him drink.

You know, in the past I have bought things from you.

A simple sentence in the knocking thread could have saved me the labor or putting in this new engine. I'm not going to go around and around about it again. Unlike you, I'm sure that a majority of people coming to this forum are more like me, wanting to learn how to maintain these cars so we can keep them on the road. What we know, we know because of others willingness to share their experiences. Before the knock issue, I had no idea that the 617 was an "Interference Engine" and no idea that playing with the timing could in-fact destroy the engine. That simple sentence would have saved me a trip half way across the county towing my 81 300D to trade for the new engine that currently sits in the car. But, water under the bridge as it is and hopefully it will save someone else from making the same mistake, one, that from reading more about it has happened to quite a few people.

Did I give up? nope. I still love these cars and am willing to do what it takes to keep a couple nice examples running. The forum is my only source of support in this endeavor and without it I might as well be driving a honda.

The steps I shared did get the car close enough so that it's now running. The people on the other forum seemed to have similar success with the instructions. So, since they worked for me I in turn wanted to share the information with anyone who cared to know. I didn't play games and bait people into asking me specifically what to do and how to do it to offer that information.

This car is not a toy to me. It's my family of 5's main transportation. With the loss of the Transmission in my E320, we are currently left with driving the 89 F350 as our full time vehicle, so you can understand why I'm a little pressed for time in getting this car back on the road. In that haste I didn't research quite far enough and ended up crapping that first engine.

Look at the video, see that crappy building in front of my car? thats my "shop" I work outside and the weather is turning so there will be little time left for me to dial this in before it gets miserable out.

So, if you have some special information on what could be done then please share it.

Gathering from the tang picture, I'm guessing that what your saying to do is open that port, turn the engine to 15 after TDC, then while looking in the port with a light, turn the pump until that tang is centered? I'm guessing that there is an O-ring for that port that will need to be replaced if I open it?

Apparently, you are.

And, my comment in the original thread was perfectly clear:


Like you usually do, you totally ignored this comment and decided to rotate the camshaft by 90 degrees without the slightest understanding of what you were doing and why you were doing it.

As said above, we lead a horse to water............we cannot make him drink.



Are you completely blind to the 23000 posts that I have put up here in the past 10 years? Do you have any clue as to what is contained in those posts? I've shared more experiences and provided more knowledge to more people on this forum than you can possibly count and you have the unmitigated gall to conclude that I am not a person to assist or to share my experiences and knowledge.

Go and find someone else to abuse. I'm done with you.

ditto. Perfect example of how to explain the tang while being a taint.

From looking over my info it looks like there are TWO "M" pump styles, one type on the US spic 617s as Brian's post shows and the "M" pump on the Euro, N/A 617/6 which has a flat spot that the locking pin rests against as opposed to a spade that a slotted locking pin fits as in Brian's pic. Can anyone clear this up?

Later OM617 IPs like the one in Dave's photo are set up to use the RIV A/B timing light tool so the "tang" is the type that corresponds to that tool as well as the later style locking tool. Earlier IP's had the other setup utilizing the early simpler locking tool.

Can someone confirm IP timing on an early 617, (1980 300SD)? Is it 24deg. BTDC? Thanks.

This is correct if you utilize the drip method. On that engine, that method is all you have.........

Thanks for getting back, So in other words Dave's "M" pump is basically the same as the "M" pump on, say, my 85 W123 Euros except for the timing port. I believe delivery valve splined socket, O rings and copper sealing rings are the same also but I'm now positive about that.