Anyone knows what are the differences between the following injectors

1) KCA30S44 - used in 300SDL
2) KCA30S35 - used in 300D
3) KCA30S36 - used in VW diesel

Are they kind of 'compatible' if push came to shove. They are all rated as 155 bar or Turbo rated. I know the nozzles may be different, thus may be a different spray pattern. Any downside?

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Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

As long as you use the correct Spray Nozzle and set the opening pressure for the Engine you plan to use them on; you can use them.

The first time I rebuilt my Injectors I used Injector Bodies from a VW Rabbit with some brand X Nozzles that were made for Mercedes; and I set the opening pressure for the Turbo Diesel.

Another issue is take a close look at the below pic. You will see 2 Injector bodies that are different. The internal parts are also different and you cannot mix the parts between the 2 types of Injectors.

You can use and mix the 2 types of completely assembled and set Injectors on the Engine.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Hey,

The "insides" of the injectors from the 2 pictures above are same. There is no difference regarding what is inside them. There is a shim (of course different sizes), a spring (super slight differences with age but not an issue), a bowl like piece with small holes (same), and a piece that looks like a rivit (same). You cannot mix and match the injector body pieces (upper and lower) as noted above, but the insides are the same. Of course, nozzels are important.

Even injectors that look the same on the outside do not necessarily contain identical components on the inside.

That is not true.

On the one with the long Nozzle Nut the Spring is shorter, and the part that you say looks like a Rivet is longer.

If you put the longer Rivet shaped object into the Injector with the shorter Nozzle Nut; when you Torque the Injector Nut you will crack off the end of the Nozzle Pintle; and ruin a Nozzle.

Concerning shim adjusted Injectors in general it is best to keep all of the parts from one Injector segregated from the rest. If for no other reason that it often makes setting the opening pressures easier and helps idiot proof the job.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Really, hasn't happened to me yet. I will take some measurements to see what these differences are. To the naked eye, they look identical, but the real equalizer will be the measurement. Maybe you're right and I have been incredibly lucky or maybe you're wrong. I will take a look tonight. Never a cracked pintle yet. As for shims, when you replace the nozzles, the PSI you start off with is never the same as the new one. For example, if you rebuild with Elsbett Nozzles, the shims go from what MB put in the factory to incredibly thin shims. If you go with the Bosio, then the shims are generally thicker. Thanks for the info, however. After rebuilding dozens of these, I guess I should have noticed these issues and size difference, or at least encountered a problem.

Way back in the 1975-1980 I worked in a Fuel Injection Shop. Since Injectors are the easiest thing to do the Newbie starts on those so they can make some money off of you before training you to do Fuel Injection Pumps.

My Boss only liked to feed you as little info as He thought you needed to complete the job. This ended up with Me taking apart a set of Injectors that had one of those older Injectors with one of the long Nozzle nuts.

Not knowing any better and not noticing the size differences I assembled and Torqued an Injector Nut down and cracked the end of the Pintle off.
I ask my Boss what was up and He told me I had assembled the wrong part into the newer styled Injector Body.
The older type rivet looking part is longer than than on the newer ones. When assembled with the longer Spring that comes in the Newer ones it compresses the longer Spring completely and if you keep tightening on the nut something breaks.
Also the Spacer between that goes between the upper Body and the Nozzle on the Newer Injectors is thinner.

One of the ways to avoid breakag is to always tighten the Injector Nut as far as you can by Hand. If you happen to get that wrong part in the wrong Injector you will feel and when you look see that the Injector Nut will not tighten down enough by Hand.

I still have the 2 Injectors in the pic. If I can find them I guess I need to take some pics of the internals.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Hey Diesel 911,

You taught me something today -- actually 2 things.... there must be a difference AND I am very lucky. You're right and I was wrong. Never a broken pintle, however. Ran a test. I have 13 injectors. 10 are the ones pictured on left (older style) and three (newer style) ones on the right. I measured all the inners and there are differences, but all of them have differences. I should have 10 sets of the older style and 3 sets of the newer style. The 10 sets can be grouped whereby they are off by .001 or .002 (but generally the same) and the newer style are different by at least .004. The latter three were either .003 or .004 smaller than the older style. Same goes with the springs. There was 10 which were somewhat close, although they were off a little from each other and the 3 other springs were about .004 different. The rivit part same deal. Even the bowl like piece -- all had variances, but again .001. So, I can now say that virtually none of the 10 sets of the older style were identical but really really close (.001 -2) and the newer stuff is smaller, and although we're talking in the thousandths, they were smaller by at least .004 (but out of the 3 sets, each had its own variance. I would like to thank you before I screwed something up. Also, the shims are actually different in that the older shims have a smaller hole than the other style.

So, is there any real difference in the injector bodies ?

I call the upper part that the Fuel Injection Line screws into the Body of the Injector.
I believe the old style one is Shorter; but I have not seen one out of the Injector for several years so I cannot be sure.

I have no experience with this but I have read that there is a differance in the spring tension between the Injectors used on VW Rabbits (the older ones) and the Mercedes Injectors.
For practical use this does not matter since you set the opening pressure.

The size of the Hole in the Shims/Spacers is not important in the Mercedes Injectors because the Fuel return passages are to the side of the Shims.
(When we had them we used to use shims with no noles in them made by Diesel KIKI Japan.)
Bosch makes direct Injection type Injectors that use the same Shims/Spacers and the Fuel return on them is in the center. So on those you need to have a hole in the center.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

I noticed the ones I have found on W126 300SD's are different than the ones on my W116 300SD. Yet I'm currently using the newer style in my W116 with no complaints.

I wonder what the reason for the change was.

If possible would someone care to make sure I'm thinking right?

In EPC there are part numbers for the
- injector Assembly (item 565)
- holder (item 583)
- everything but the nozzle (item 568)
- individual internal parts (items 580, 577, 574, 571)
- nozzle (item 586)



So ...

• I find the p/n of item 568 for my vin in EPC.
• Then I search EPC to find where that p/n is used.
• The result is a list of engine models e.g. 602.911 or 603.950 (there are a lot).
• I looked through a few of those results and found that they did have the same p/n's for the holder (item 583) and internal pieces (items 580, 577, 574, 571).

If I get some used nozzles from any of those engines I should be able to use at least the holder (upper and lower piece) and probably internals.

Anyone see anything wrong with that?

Thnx,
Bill

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1992 300SD 140.134 Sold

Yes, you can use used injectors from any 602 turbo or 603 turbo. Engines 602.961 (201.128, 190 D 2.5 TURBO), 602.962 (124.128, 300 D 2.5 TURBO), 603.960 (124.133/193, 300 D/TD TURBO + 4MATIC), 603.961 (126.125, 300 SDL TURBO), 603.970 (126.134, 126,135, 350 SD/SDL TURBO), 603.971 (140.134, 350 SD/S 350 TURBO).
And you can use #583, 580, 577, 574 from any 601, 602 or 603 engine.

I'm not sure that is correct here in USA, my '87 wagon (124.193) uses a different injector than the later OM60x engines which have oblique (aka inclined) injection. The bodies are different, the threads that go into the pre-chamber are the difference and you will not be able to use those bodies in the wrong pre-chambers.

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Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC

Excuse me... I forgot about two variants of prechamber and US/ECE versions. And it depends on year and model.
I'll check it again separately for US-ver. models.

For 603.971 (140.134) US-version.

No. 565 - 003 017 29 21 - 602.961, 602.962, 603.970, 603.971
No. 568 - 002 017 35 21 - 602.911, 602.961, 602.962, 603.970, 603.971
No. 583 - 000 017 29 16 - 602.911, 602.961, 602.962, 603.970, 603.971
No. 586 - 002 017 29 12 - 602.961, 602.962, 603.970, 603.971
No. 580 - 001 017 59 52 - 601.921, 602.911, 602.961, 602.962, 617.912 (not all engines), 617.951, 617.952, 603.960, 603.961, 603.970, 603.971
No 577 - 000 017 13 74 - 601.921, 602.911, 602.961, 602.962, 617.912 (not all engines), 617.951, 617.952, 603.960, 603.961, 603.970, 603.971
No 574 - 000 017 13 17 - 601.921, 602.911, 602.961, 602.962, 617.912 (not all engines), 617.951, 617.952, 603.960, 603.961, 603.970, 603.971