This is a car I just bought about 3 weeks ago. It drives "fine" for 1979 and seems ready to add another 400k to the 115k miles it has. It was taken care of as a secondary/tertiary vehicle.
Recently, without warning, it just plain would not KICK over when started. This is my first ever Diesel and I have no help other than a mechanic who is not very familiar with diesel engines.

NOW, I can start the car doing something the owner would do, at times, when the car wouldnt start. I dont LIKE doing this and need someone to tell me FIRST, why I shouldnt do it and B) what is wrong that this ACTION starts the car.
THE ACTION? I spray - "CarQuest Heavy Duty Starting Fluid" into the air filter intake spot.. and: POOF, the car starts. WHY? What is NOT working on the car that it can not do this on its own?
PLEASE ask questions relating to SMOKE -white and only when the car starts and then, just a small amount. I do not know if there are large amounts of smoke any other time as even this white smoke is NEW and wasnt happening three-four days ago.
HELP>

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Do not use starting fluid. You can ruin the engine. You have malfunctioning glow plugs. You probably have old style loop glow plugs. Do you know the difference between loop style plugs and pencil style plugs? If so, tell us which ones you have. If you don't know, do you have heavy squiggly wires going between the glow plugs?

From your description I assume you mean that the engine is turning over but is not firing. Is that correct?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

"You probably have old style loop glow plugs. Do you know the difference between loop style plugs and pencil style plugs? If so, tell us which ones you have. If you don't know, do you have heavy squiggly wires going between the glow plugs?

From your description I assume you mean that the engine is turning over but is not firing. Is that correct?[/QUOTE]"

Yes, you are correct. My feelings were related to the GLOW PLUGS as well, but I wondered how seriously they could be effecting the car. I live in San Diego and its my understanding that in a diesel engine, the ONLY thing the spark plug is generally used for is getting the cylinder warm enough for the compressed air to ignite the fuel. IF the glow plugs are the issue, and they are used for more than "warming" and are actually important for igniting the fuel, I'll make sure to fully investigate the glow plugs ASAP.

My thoughts are that this is NOT glow plug related and I'm FAR from a mechanic. My reasons are I'm in a warm climate. PLUS, if I let the car run for about 3 minutes, turn it off, wait about 10 minutes (engine is still warm) the car turns right over. The fact that "thinning" the air with a combustible air product leads to it turning over seems more like I'm having fuel or air mix issues and NOT glow plugs.

I'll check the plugs. There are a few good posts that describe how to do that. I just fail to see how, in this case, the plugs are the answer.

"

Yes, you are correct. My feelings were related to the GLOW PLUGS as well, but I wondered how seriously they could be effecting the car. I live in San Diego and its my understanding that in a diesel engine, the ONLY thing the spark plug is generally used for is getting the cylinder warm enough for the compressed air to ignite the fuel. IF the glow plugs are the issue, and they are used for more than "warming" and are actually important for igniting the fuel, I'll make sure to fully investigate the glow plugs ASAP.

My thoughts are that this is NOT glow plug related and I'm FAR from a mechanic. My reasons are I'm in a warm climate. PLUS, if I let the car run for about 3 minutes, turn it off, wait about 10 minutes (engine is still warm) the car turns right over. The fact that "thinning" the air with a combustible air product leads to it turning over seems more like I'm having fuel or air mix issues and NOT glow plugs.

I'll check the plugs. There are a few good posts that describe how to do that. I just fail to see how, in this case, the plugs are the answer.[/QUOTE]

A lot of diesels will just not start without some glow plug assistance hot or cold. You are probably not doing your starter and battery much good if the glow plugs are out either.

On some engines even a couple of duds are enough to basically disable the starting. If you have the series plugs with the squiggly wires one bad is way too many. As all the rest will be non functional even if good.

When you put the ignition key in the glow position the internal cabin light should normally dim reflecting the heavy load if there. No dimming equals no glow plugs working. Do this with the engine cold though. The test is not rocket science either.

I have no idea what 'thinning the air' means. Starting fluid is highly combustible, far more so than diesel fuel, that's why the engine is starting with starting fluid. Your problem is almost certainly malfunctioning glow plugs. It starts once the engine is warmed up because glow plugs are less necessary in those conditions.
Tell us which kind of plugs you have and we can give directions on how to troubleshoot the exact problem.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Classic symptoms of bad glow plugs. Regardless of climate they are absolutely required to start these cars. If you still have the older loop style plugs in there than this is the perfect time to up grade your plugs to the newer pencil style (they really do work that much better).
Glow plugs are used to warm the air in the pre chamber as well as providing a red hot area for the diesel fuel to combust upon start up.

THANK you for the educational answer. IT warms the air in the CHAMBER!!! That makes sense.. that way its easier to ignite the fuel as the air is easier to make HOT because it is already WARM. IT also explains how making the air easier to combust (the spray can stuff) starts the car as well. I DO not like screwing with the spray can stuff and had actually given it away because I felt it was a BAD THING..

NOW, can anyone point to a good place to get a manual that will walk me through replacing GLOW PLUGS.. or at least is there already a post for it? I'll search and wait for an answer. I havent had the car long, but I do know I like it!

It all depends on whether you have loop style or pencil style.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The car is OLD and its original owner stopped caring for it a decade or so ago. The guy I bought it from kept is as his backup car and didnt take the same care. MY thoughts are the plugs that came in it (the car is from Germany, potentially it was even a gray market car but who will ever know without CSI MECHANICS going over it) are the same ones that have been used to replace them over time.

There has to be someone who would have a pretty good GUESS about the type of plugs. OH, are you also saying that the TYPE will depend on how I replace them? IF SO, I'll still look at both ways.. just curious if the "walk through" has ever been posted in this forum.

I was a 914 forum member for a while and generally little stuff like this had already been discussed, walked through, nearly animated.

Thank you for your help. Honestly I feel like this issue will be solved pretty soon.

FINAL EASY QUESTION: What are the board recommendations for OIL for this car.. any fluids actually?

Yes, what Kerry is saying is that we can better help you if we know what type of glow plugs you currently have installed. The older style (known as "loop plugs") were original to your car, you may still have loop style plugs installed. Loop style plugs are wired in series, meaning when one fails they all fail - sort of like old style Christmas lights, when power is interrupted at one plug, none of them work and your car doesn't want to start.

The newer style plugs are called "pencil style" and are wired in parallel - each plug has its own direct electrical supply and, therefore, they all operate independently of one another. With pencil plugs, when one fails you generally can still start the engine but you may notice it running rough for a minute or so until that one cold cylinder warms up and starts igniting along with the others.

With that in mind, determining what the problem is and, ultimately, how to fix it first depends on determining what type of plug you have installed.

Not sure if we have DIY pictorial here, but you can find one at this site: http://www.dieselgiant.com/mercedesdieselloopglowplugrepair.htm

If you have loop plugs and you want to upgrade the pencil plugs, you will also have to wire the plugs differently.

Either way, you can purchase the plugs you need by clicking on the "Buy Parts" tab at the top of this page.

So, let us know what type of plug you are dealing with - if you are not certain, take a picture and post it here.

Good luck.

__________________
'95 E300D ("Tank") - 231,000 miles
'79 240D ("Biscuit") - 197,250 miles (Sold)
'83 240D ("Ding-Ding") - 217,000 miles (Death by deer)
______________________________________

"Back off, man. I’m a scientist” ~ Peter Venkman

I'm pretty sure 79's came with loop plugs but the problem is that there are retrofit pencil plugs for the car so they could be either. You need to look at the plugs and see if they are connected using heavy squiggly wires or not. There's a tutorial on Diesel Giant on pencil plugs but you should not follow any of those procedures until you've determined if they are loop or pencil plugs. Posting a pictures of the plugs here would get a quick answer.
There is no easy answer to the oil question. Just use diesel rated oils.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I'm pretty sure 79's came with loop plugs but the problem is that there are retrofit pencil plugs for the car so they could be either. You need to look at the plugs and see if they are connected using heavy squiggly wires or not. There's a tutorial on Diesel Giant on pencil plugs but you should not follow any of those procedures until you've determined if they are loop or pencil plugs. Posting a pictures of the plugs here would get a quick answer.
There is no easy answer to the oil question. Just use diesel rated oils.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Last goofy question.. will the glow plugs be as easy to find as "spark plugs"... On the car, or, at the "market".?

Yes.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Wait a minute, I think you have an SD. If so, it has pencil plugs.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13