Hi guys,

I have come across a 1 owner vehicle available from someone I know. It has around 130K miles, and is a manual 4 speed, manual windows, power sunroof and steering.

It appears be very clean and runs well. However, the A/C has not worked for many years. He said that he didn't use it much, and he recharged it now and again, but it would work for awhile and then stop. He did have it retrofitted to R134. He said since he didn't use the A/C much, it didn't bother him.

So here's the question - the rest of the car is is good order, but the A/C is dead. For those who are experts in A/C, what is the worst that could be wrong with it, and what would it take to fix it? What kind of expenses could I expect with this?

I'm very tempted to buy it, but the broken A/C kinda scares me.

Sincerely,

PE

The most common failure of an AC system in a car is the o-rings. There are not many, but the shrink/crack and leak.

If thats the case, repair is cheap and easy. I would recommend just taking a close look at things to determine if there is any visible damage. Then replace the o-rings. After that do a vacuum test or take it somewhere just to have that test done.

If it does not hold vacuum, you have some bigger issues. Such as a crack in the compressor or hole in the condenser. A dye test may help if the compressor will run. If the compressor is noisy, dont run it! Could mean its damaged or out of oil.

If it holds vacuum, you may be in luck. But the concern is the 134a, which is less efficient, and how much oil is in the system. One can not just guess at the oil level.

Worst case you are looking at a compressor, evaporator and dryer. But AC systems are very, very simple and very, very easy to work on. If you can do all the labor yourself you will save big. But for filling an system with an unknown history, I recommend taking it in for a proper filling so they get the oil level right.

I do not know the cost of parts for your system. And not knowing what is exactly wrong make it difficult. Could be $14 in o-rings, could be a $200 compressor.

By the way, I fill my system with propane now. Its dirt cheap, works very, very well. Compatible with R12 and 134a and environmentally safe. Ran al of last summer with it and was happy!

__________________
1991 560 SEL / 185k miles
1992 750il / 17k miles - project car

What's he asking? I don't think you should buy it. Better let me take a look for you. WHere is it?

__________________
What Would Rudolph Do?
1975 300D, 1975 240D, 1985 300SD, 1997 300D, 2005 E320 , 2006 Toyota Prius

It all depends on how much you end up paying for it. Add another $800-$1200 to get it fixed professionally. If you do it yourself then it may be less, much less. If he claims that he recharged it and it worked for a while then it may just be a leak somewhere. 130K is too good to be true for a 29 years old car.

Good luck.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

Hey,hey,hey. Do you really need AC on that old beast. Best buy it and part it out. Or call someone like junqueyardjim or biopete to take it off your hands all in one piece. AC can always be repaired if you need it and want to spend the bucks. Chances are it will need a bunch and then still be only be half there. That is why I think you should tell us where it is so we can get on it and you will not have to worry about AC. On mine, I removed all the AC parts under the hood. I have a new car if I wish to have AC for the 75 days a year when we really appreaciate the feature here in God's Country. On a 240D with original engine you have about 85HP to work with, and AC will pull off 25hp. Doesn't leave you with much, especially when you put that little retard car in 4th gear. Where did you say the car was?

__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

Boy, I'm brand new to this forum, but now I see the humor around here.

You guys crack me up.

PE

I also note that junqueyardjim has a 240D with 4 speed as well... so this 'advice' doesn't seem that altruistic....no?

and doesn't mean much if it comes with a major oil leak that could cost big dough to fix

I had my A/C overhauled in the spring of 2011, anything related to the system was replaced. New R12, compressor, receiver/dryer, you name it. Cost just shy of 1200. Was it worth it, especially in a humid August in New England? Yep.

Not to contradict what LandYaght said, but for most DIYers, AC is better left to a specialist. It's not just the Haynes manual that says this, either. It's not worth the risk for a newbie to come into contact with toxic refrigerant and say "aw shucks I should have let a professional do it" after the fact. It can be very dangerous to discharge a system, as it's under extreme pressure. I'm sure there are DIYers who are genuinely knowledgeable about AC systems and I don't mean to insult anyone's expertise, but if you personally don't know much about it, find a specialist. It's the smart thing to do.

If you can live without A/C, I would just buy the car. If you want to fix it, great. It'll give the car higher value should you choose to flip it at some point. But here's some further insight: no matter how many miles a car has, the rubber is still a quarter of a century old give or take, and will probably leak oil/fluid/water at some point if it hasn't been replaced. So unless you want to do it yourself or have the collateral to have a professional fix it for you, see if the PO has records of seals/gaskets being replaced. The front crankshaft seal is a very common leak point. I had to have mine replaced, and not to discourage you, but yes, that, too, was expensive to fix. These are just all things you need to be mindful of before buying a car that's this old.

__________________
Never be ashamed to ask for help.

1985 300D
1987 300SDL
1970 Jaguar E-Type OTS
2002 Dodge Intrepid (Traded In)
2011 Ford Crown Victoria

My 81 had 122k original miles when I bought it.[it sat for the last 10 years and got about 500 miles a year]. I didn't even check if the AC worked, just cut the belt off the compressor, rolled down the windows, cranked open the sunroof and motored on.

__________________
1981 240D 143k 4 spd manual -SOLD

2004 VW Jetta TDI 5 speed 300k -still driven daily

If the car is cheap and in really great shape, I would just forget about the AC. You can mess with it and try to solve the problem. I removed my compressor, the PE told me the same thing. Not having the compressor in the way makes working on the old beast much easier. It runs alot quieter too.

Well you are new to the Forum and we do have some fun at times. But I wouldn't push to much for air on the 240D. If I did, and I might do this with mine, is to have a whole new system installed, just like they are retro fitting the American cars of the 40's and 50's. I love my 240D with a 4 speed. But I also installed my very good 300D 617 Turbo out of my 85. I had driven the 85 for 5 years and knew what a great engine it was. The swap is not that difficult, especially if you have both cars. Also I live in central Indiana, yes we get a few hot days with a lot of humidity and that old German AC pushing that R134 freon just won't cool the car. So that is why if I go AC I am going with a whole new system and I have the engine power to do it well. I also think that running AC on these old diesels is very hard the the belt drive system running at the front. We loose a lot of engines when or with the failure of the front damper and pulley. So without AC I even run with my belts in a looser or with a relieved amount of tension. They don't have to be so tight with no AC compressor to pull. Depends on the amount you have to spend and how much you value the AC. But in my thinking, those old systems running on R134 is a waste of time and money.

__________________
Junqueyardjim
Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



1983 Mercedes W123 240D 4 Speed 285,000 on the road with a 617 turbo, beautiful butter yellow, license plate # 83 240D INDIANA

2003 Jaguar Type X, AWD. beautiful, good mileage,
Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

Sounds very similar to the 240D I looked at today. In RI?

__________________
14 E250 Bluetec "Sinclair", Palladium Silver on Black, 153k miles
06 E320 CDI "Rutherford", Black on Tan, 171k mi, Stage 1 tune, tuned TCU
91 300D "Otis", Smoke Silver, 142k mi, wastegate conversion

19 Honda CR-V EX 61k mi
Fourteen other MB's owned and sold
1961 Very Tolerant Wife

Hi Shertex,

No, it was not in RI... Boy I'd be worried about salt corrosion if I were looking at one there....

Sincerely,

PE

Well, um.... if you pass on it... er... let us know will ya?

My advice?
If it isn't rusty, leaking oil everywhere, gears grinding, rear squeeking when you drive... it's probably worthwhile to consider it.

__________________
Codifex
1981 240D ChinaBlue (Got her running with a donor engine.)
1983 300DTurbo w/sunroof.
1984 300TD manual sunroof. (Electrical Gremlins)

Also . . . depends on what state you're in . . . for instance, if you're down here in Florida, you'll definitely want A/C working, or any of the Southern States all the way to SoCal. I loved my ugly '76 240D, 4-spd "Pumpkin" because of it's simplicity, and the fact I got three trouble-free years out of her, driving her around CA and the Northwestern States. However, when I arrived in Florida, it became evident to me, that there were probably 75 days of the year that I wouldn't need A/C!!!! Since the car never had it . . . I wasn't going to even think about a retrofit, whereas, I would have spent the money to replace everything to get an existing system working. In fact, I did just that with my 300D which was the Pumpkin's replacement. I did not trust doing it myself. However, some 5 years later, and I have another set of leaks that need to be tested and refilled.

Personally, even if it's in the "Oven" states, I would hop on that car, even esepcially if the rest of the car has been mechanically well-maintained. I'd get the car on a rack, with or without an experienced mechanic, go through the undercarriage, and under the hood to see what needs (or will need) replacement, and start ordering parts for a couple of major "car clinic" days. I'd start with replacing belts and hoses, and work my way across the undercarriage (if needed), get an alignment, and with the alignment, a new set of good tires.

How much is your friend selling the car for???

And, if you're feeling a bit squeemish about the purchase, I'll gladly consider trading the "avocado" for it . . . .

Torie

__________________
1983 300D, the "Avocado"
1976 240D, 4-spd the "Pumpkin", SOLD to Pierre
1984 190D, 2.2L, 5-spd, my intro to MBZ diesels, crashed into in 2002