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  #1  
Old 02-13-2002, 06:44 PM
atikovi
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‘71 220D: At how low temp. will it start with bad plugs?

I bought this car a few weeks ago and soon I plan to pick it up and drive it home. When I bought it, I noticed the center warning light (is that the glow plug indicator) didn’t come on and it took a long time to crank even in 60 degree weather before it would start. It runs great once it started. I have to get it out of there in the next few days but it’s supposed to be only in the mid 40’s. Will it start at this temperature if the glow plugs are bad? Any suggestions to help get it started?

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  #2  
Old 02-13-2002, 06:48 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Western Mass.
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dip stick oil heater?
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Ricali

03 C240 4matic wagon
95 300E 234,000
7 prior 240;s 5 still going
81 300sd gone
65 230sl gone
49 Studebaker Champion
90BMW convert.167,000
60 Dodge D-100
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2002, 08:00 PM
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Although I have not tried this myself, I have heard that you can heat up the air going into the air intake with a hair dryer, heat gun, or propane torch and this will make cold starting easier. I heard this from people who use this technique to start their boat diesels.
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2002, 08:01 PM
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Location: Evansville, Indiana
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You probably won't get it started without glowplugs at 40F -- mine is reluctant to start warm without the glowplugs, and intert when cold without them.

What I would do is be prepared for two problems -- a dead switch and one or more dead plugs.

Make up a heavy jumper with big alligator clips about two feet long. Make of large diameter wire, preferably solid copper rather than stranded -- it will need to carry 50 amps or so, plan on it getting hot. You can use this to jumper from the positive battery post to the back glowplug if the switch is bad. Don't leave it on more than a minute or so -- you can melt the glowplugs and cause them to fail.

Take two or three new plugs with you, and a proper sized wrench. That way you will have replacement plugs for any that are bad.

The 71 will have series plugs -- if one is bad, none of them work. You can check by looking at resistance between the lower collar were the wires go and the top collar were the screw is -- if there is no continuity, the plug is bad. You can also check for voltage at each wire connection between plugs with a voltmeter (or a screwdriver grounding the wires to the head!) while the glow plug switch is pulled.

Make sure you get the alternator light to dim slightly while pulling on the knob BEFORE the starter operates -- kinda hard to describe, easy to do once you get the hang of it. That spring is STRONG, and it is easy to not pull hard enough to close the contact properly. They also can fail and not run the plugs unless the starter is also engaged.

My guess is that the switch is bad, because it did start when cranked (the plugs stay on, without the dash resistor in the circuit). Jumper from battery to glowplugs for 30 sec or so, the crank. If it sparks when you connect, the glowplugs are fine.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #5  
Old 02-13-2002, 10:40 PM
DieselBenz
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ricali,

Where can I get the dip stick oil heater? Thanks

DieselBenz
68 220D
81 & 83 300D
85 300SD
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  #6  
Old 02-14-2002, 06:46 AM
Anthony Ryan
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Erm

So you can start a diesel in warm weather without glowplugs?

How warm? Mine wouldnt start after a complete day out in the sunny high 50s after a few days of low 40s.
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Old 02-14-2002, 07:58 AM
atikovi
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The heated dipstick and hairdryer are good ideas but I would need a quarter mile long extension cord. I’ll plan on checking each glow plug. If one is bad causing all of them to not work, can I just use a jumper wire to bypass the bad one(s)? It’s supposed to get up to the low 50’s tomorrow so that day will be my best shot. The car is 30 miles from my house so I just want to get it started and drive it home without going back and forth for parts or tools.
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  #8  
Old 02-14-2002, 07:51 PM
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Yes, you can jumper around the bad glowplug. The propane torch trick will also work well -- quite a few diesel tractors I know of have intake air preheaters rather than glowplugs. Just don't run raw, unburned propane down the intake -- you risk blowing the head off!

There isn't much difference in the pull required to get the glowplugs on and the pull required to crank these cars.

The good news is that you got is started without the glowplugs.

Oh, and the glow indicator in the dash is also in series -- if it is bad or loose, the glowplugs won't work in preheat, only when the starter is engaged.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #9  
Old 02-14-2002, 08:39 PM
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Fast lane maybe for heatewr JC whitney for sure.

Dodge diesel uses intake heater ofr hot air starting.

Hair dryer with dipstick heater sounds what I'd try. If you dont have electric borrow a generator.
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Ricali

03 C240 4matic wagon
95 300E 234,000
7 prior 240;s 5 still going
81 300sd gone
65 230sl gone
49 Studebaker Champion
90BMW convert.167,000
60 Dodge D-100
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2002, 08:50 PM
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atikovi,

I am not clear on the procedure you are using. I had a 1971 220D for a long time in the family, and replaced it with a 1975 240D. Both of them had the knob you pull out of the dash to the left of the steering wheel to start. As psfred has noted, the knob has a couple of positions as you manipulate it to make different things happen. If you are already familiar with the knob's functions and positions, then the rest of this is probably not of use to you. But, just in case you are not familiar, I have provided some detail on how the thing is supposed to work.

In the off position the knob is all the way in against the dash. When you pull it out it kind of pops into the "run" position. To start you have to pull it out and hold it out against a spring preload that wants to push it back to run position. The "out against the spring load" position is the glow plug energizing position. If you do not hold it out there, hard against the end of the spring travel, the plugs will not get energized. You can tell, when you pull it out, if you watch the red lights in the instrument panel dim, that you have reached the point of energizing the glow plugs. You hold the knob there for a twenty or more seconds and the glow plug filament on the dash should start to turn dull red, then get brighter and turn orange. When it is in the orange range, you pull even harder and the starter engages. Once started you let go of the knob and the spring pulls/pushes it back to the "run" positon. To shut the car off you push the knob into the dash until knob, and the engine, stops.

If you cannot see the dash lights dim, you likely are not getting juice to the glow plugs. That can be the fault of a failed fuse, a loose connection on the glow plug wiring, or the dash pull-knob switch.

On my 220D the last glow plug (#4 cylinder) had the wire delivering power attached to it. While I was in Aspen skiing, the car suddenly would not start. I was pretty anxious because the car was relatively new and this was the first time the car failed to start (I also learned about Diesel fuel gelling in the cold that trip). After a good bit of struggling I noticed the dash lights did not dim. So I checked fuses and then connections. The connection to that last glow plug had broken off the wire due to vibration. I found a replacement eye hole type connector and crimped it on,made the connection and the problem was solved.

It actually took me a few days to figure this out, but since the car was a manual transmission unit, even without glow plugs I could push start it. Just get it up to about trotting speed or higher and, with the knob in the glow plug position (optimistic) or in the run position, put it in second and drop the clutch. Even in bitter sub-zero cold I have always been able to start these things by pushing them.

My 240D dash switch died in the glow plug position as psfred suggested might be the case with your car. My 240D also had a starter interlock, courtesy of the US DOT for 1975 model year cars with manuals, which cut the starter out of the circuit if the car was not in neutral. So, I learned to start the car by putting it in gear, then pulling the knob all the way out of the dash and holding it there for 30 to 40 seconds, and then dropping the shifter to neutral. Not exactly what MB had in mind, but, since the system was designed to keep the plugs glowing when the starter circuit was engaged by the dash knob, it worked that way at least as long as it worked the originally intended way.

Some other things that can be afflicting your car could be tight valves, as when they are out of adjustment they get tight and then do not open and close according to plan. This means low compression and can be fixed with a valve adjustment. Or, the starter can be getting tired and the motor is turning over too slowly. Or you have too heavy an oil in the car and the viscosity of the stuff when it is cold is adding enough load to slow the starter down. If you just got the car, it may need some routine service, like a valve adjustment and an oil change. I can tell you my 1982 240D with 280,000 miles loves Mobil Delvac 1. No problems starting this car this winter in Troy, New York where it has been in the single digits lately.

Hope all this helped, good luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
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