Starting my Diesel conversion 2.2 into 87 190E body
 

I am ready to transplant a 1984 2.2 engine into an 87 190E and am looking for input as to the issues I am facing. What help in advance can you offer regarding hookup of vacuum in order to get things working, ignition, IP ect.? I am new to the Mercedes forum and have looked at some of the posts, all helpful but not exactly specific to initial startup requirements. I plan on a simple push button glow sys. unless otherwise persuaded. Thanks

do you have only the engine from the 84 or the entire car to swap from?

Swapping the ignition housing covers vacuum shutoff, and the glow harness can connect to existing connectors in the fusebox easily, some splicing involved.

See here
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/...thumbnail=5057

My buddy pulled the engine out of his car and included most all the dsl spc. eng. related wires. I do not have the car, scrapped.

Very interested in following your swap. I've thought about the same but haven't run across any threads where it was completed. I've read everything's a direct bolt in and if so a hillbilly glow plug and shut down can be easily rigged up. Good luck!

Why not just buy a used 190D? You won't have to re-invent the wheel and won't end up with an altered vehicle.

The radiator from the gas car will not work on the diesel motor ,everything is opposite positoned.A radiator for the diesel 2.2 can be found out of a 2.5 car I know for sure , not for sure but maybe even a 300sdl radiator will work.If you havent done the frt or rear main seal it sure would be a good time before install.This old 2.2 engines are notorious leakers at these points.All 3 Ive owned in the past including the current one was and is a puddeler.You can get use to a spot or 2 but when it whizzes oil is another thing all together.

I have done this conversion. The gas radiator works just fine. You need to find the right hose. Gates-22436

Thanks Guys for the input, I'll keep moving forward. Other thoughts welcome.

I am in the midst of this conversion. I'd rank it low on the complexity list. Glow relay, shutoff, engine mounts, front section of the exhaust, different hoses....thats about it. I'll take some pics of my progress. I hope to have it on the road before the end of July. Gasser is already pulled out, I am prepping the diesel powerplant setup/trans to put back in, and I am re-doing the driveline on the car (flex discs, carrier/bearing) Radiator works just fine from the gasser.

Hey great to hear I'll have extra help on this. I am somewhat perplexed by all the vacuum sys. can someone explain the basics of it to me? How does the IP shutoff work and what other vac. functions will I need to make sure they are working inorder to get this car running and driveable? Hope to start putting eng. in this week. Thanks

The diesel engine has a vacuum pump. The brake booster, shutoff valve, and climate control operate off of it. For the shutoff, a line goes from the vacuum supply to a valve on the side of the ignition switch housing, which opens the vacuum supply to the second line back to the shutoff valve on the injection pump when the key is off.

Am I corrrect in thinking my 190e car (gas) does not have the correct vac. contr. ingnition switch to control my IP shut off? What is the best option if this is the situation, what do I do? Thanks

The simplest and most straightforward way is to go manual for both glow and shutoff. I used a Ford starter solenoid for glow plugs and for shutoff hooked up to a vacuum solenoid to a switch on the dash, but a better solution is to use a switchover valve.

No the gas car will not have the valve on the ignition. If you cannot find one from a 190d then your best bet would be a switchover valve that electrically controls the vacuum.

PM me for a nearly new ignition key tumbler and complete switch from a 84 190d, price reasonable.

I am familiar with doing a manual glow plug setup, I'm also into Isuzu dsls. I drive a factory S10 2.2 dsl. Not familar yet with the Mercedes but getting there. Will need help if I don't find an ignition switch reasonable. Thanks

At this point I have the engine in but also have a snag. The gas flex coupling that connects the end of the trans tailshaft to the drive shaft has a larger bolt circle than the one on the diesel trans. Can I remove the part on the end of the tailshaft and switch it with the diesel one? I'm going to try to att. a pic to ill. my point but the is a nut type thing that has what appears to be an intentional divit in it to keep it from coming off. Is this correct and can I swap them out?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7250/7...38ae656f_c.jpg

You can use a punch to remove the staking from the nut, then swap the flanges over.

Great, thanks for the quick responce!

Can someone please explain in basic terms how the fuel shut off works on a 1984 2.2 dsl. eng.? I need to be able to understand what the concept is in order to move forward with my gas car to dsl. conversion. I'm making progress Thanks to all who have responded.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8423/7...e91fbaa9_c.jpg

Basically, on the rear of the IP there is a module which has a port to attach a vaccum line. When vaccum is applied to that line it cuts off the fuel and shuts down the engine. If I understand correctly, the factory 190D applies this vaccum via the ignition switch. A switchover valve can be plumbed in as an alternative as it opens when power is removed.

Is there no difference between a diesel auto trans and a gasser?

The yoke nut takes a 30mm 12 point deep socket. If you don't have one, Phil @ Fastlane has them.

Thanks, regarding the ? as to any diff. between the transissions. From what I see in the wiring connections etc. plugs look identical, not totally sure as to the vacuum question. Information welcome! Thanks

So you kept the diesel auto trans and inserted both the diesel motor and trans into the gas car?

I used the gas transmission when I did the swap.

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The vacuum operated shut off valve circuit needs vacuum to shut down and then no vacuum (open to free air) to start and run. I use 2 electric controlled air valves.

A: One normally open. It closes when power is applied.
B: One normally closed. It opens when power is applied.

When the ignition is turned on:
"A" closes to prevent new vacuum from getting to the fuel shut off valve on the IP and prevent the venting of the entire vacuum circuit.
"B" opens to vent the vacuum that shut off the fuel to the IP the last time the car was turned off.

When the ignition is turned off:
"A" allows vacuum to get to the shut off valve on the IP.
"B" closes to stop the venting of the vacuum to the shut off valve on the IP.

With this setup my car starts fine and shuts down as soon as the key is turn off.

Most gas cars have one or 2 of these valves. The 190e may have what you need under the hood.
If you go to a junk yard you check the "normal", un-powered, status of a valve by trying to blow through it.
If you can blow through it, it is normally open.
If you cannot blow through it, it is normally closed.

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I had to cut a slot in the air cleaner box to allow clearance for the brake booster vacuum line.

I have the diesel trans installed in mine. I have not fire the engine up yet, maybe this week, hopefully. I felt safer trying the dsl. trans because I didn't know how the combo trans and diff. gearing was going to be. Hope I made a good call, can always swap it out. One other thing I think I noticed the gas trans. has some type of speed sensor on the engine flexplate that was wired into the trans harness? not sure though!

There's actually a much simpler way. You can use one solenoid valve that just has a pinhole "vent" in the line going to the shutoff on the IP. I tested mine to leak down in 2-3 seconds. The pin hole is small enough to allow full vacuum, but large enough to leak down quickly enough to allow an immediate restart if desired. Just poking a hole doesn't work, you actually need to use a heated pin to ensure that the orifice doesn't close up again.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ect-380-95.jpg
Then to keep it from getting plugged, just wrap a couple of turns of shop paper towel around it to act as a simple air filter. Then use a piece of heat shrink and shrink one end to protect the "filter" from engine bay gunk.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...ect-380-96.jpg

Rather brilliant I must say and the pics speak volumes, I will definately keep this in mind. Thanks for that info.

To answer your question Walkinvol, I used the diesel eng.& trans. I have the gas tranny but noticed the torque convt. was larger and thicker. I also believe there was some type of speed sensor or something that the dsl. didn't have. I was concerned about the diff. in rpm's between the gas and the dsl. and figured maybe the shifting was based on that as well, not sure? Input appriciated for anyone with a better understanding. I am anxious to learn more from the other member "GregMN" that has mentioned he used the gas trans. Are you up and running with your combo, please let us know the status? Thanks

Umm... see signature...

40k

Current status is "parked".
My 380 SEC / 300 SDC is a lot more fun to drive and gets the same mileage.

The swap took 4 days:
1: remove diesel drive train from donor
2: remove gas drive train
3: swap gas trans onto the diesel engine
4: install diesel drive train and drive it out of the garage so I could clean up the place

By the end of the week all the gauges worked, the fuel shut off worked with the ignition, the WVO system was installed and working, and the cruise control worked.

I am using gas trans with the diesel, and the diesel torque converter as the gas one does not fit.

Very interesting, I'm learning more each day. I was wondering if anyone else noticed diffs. between the torque conv. It has been a year or so since I tried putting the combos together, I settle then on using the gas trans, wasn't sure about a mix & match. This is good to know for future ref. Thanks all.

I think I made a major blunder. Got the engine and trans all bolted in, but forgot to hook up the shift linkage from trans to shifter. Is it possible to connect these up without partially pulling things back out??????????? :(

Yes, worst case is you need to lower the rear of the trans (remove crossmember bolts) if you cant get access.

Well, hopefully this should do it, the car is still up on stands under the hoist. I hope it is not needed to undo front mtr. mts. bolts etc. but it may be better if I do. What a foolish oversight! :( Thanks

Having recieved this project in parts and pcs. I'm now not sure how this shift linkage (that I did not install before inserting the eng. trans. combo) is suppose to be oriented. I'm thinking this looks right but could actually be positioned 3 other ways. The adjustment end of the linkage is at the trans. end in the pic. I like to know in advance of an undertaking so if you know please advise. Thanks

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7116/7...30cf365e_c.jpg

Adjustment end is supposed to be at the shifter. I forget which side the clip is supposed to be on the tranny lever, I believe it should be outside.

Well I undid all the mtg. bolts, cross member etc. lifted & moved engine and trans. into a position to connect shift linkage. Also had left out the poly urathane bushing in the trans. linkage plate that recieves the linkage arm. What a bear, I am still not sure which direction the linkage is supposed to be in and which direction the clips face once installed???? Can someone place a pic on here or explain this, it would save me the time and trial??? Thanks

am finalizing my conv. of a 1987 190E w/ a 1984 190D 2.2 dsl eng. Update on the parts I was seeking. I found a Gates water pump and replacement belt tensioner assy. w/bearing from "********" all shipped for around $55. Parts look excellent and bolt right up. Hopefully I can get this engine fired up this week. I have the exaust hooked up, need to connect coolant lines etc. and will be ready to start engine. Can anyone direct me to a current source for a vacuum system diagram for a 1984 190D and 87 190E, W201 vacuum system? I'm in desperate need of one, also I may be missing a vacuum modulator(?) for this to work. The item I'm refering to in the pic below is located just to the right of the coolant resivoir cap, this is what I don't have anywhere on my car. The 2nd pic is of a 190D that does not have this item as shown in the 1st pic. It may be mounted somewhere else on other models but I don't believe there is anything like this on my 87 190E? My engine setup looks identical to the 1st pic, what do I need??? Thanks

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7...6b2a7354_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7...1e46d1fd_z.jpg

Well after some delays, had to order and wait on a few items to finalize the conversion, I'm down to brass tacks. I only get a couple hrs. aday to work on this project so it is taking a while to get there. I am in need of some expert advise. #1. I would desparately like to incorporate the original glow circuit into my conv. I hope someone can walk me thru this final stage. I'm posting pics of my 84 cars relay unit which I mounted inplace of the ignition module on the drv. sd. fender. I show the wire coming out of the glw. relay box and need to know where to tie into my 87 elec. sys. The large red on the right side of the pic is the main pwr. feed to the unit, the green goes to a temp sensor in the head, I don't know where or what the red w/blk wire is. Help! Also in the upper middle of the pics is the wires I believe go to the ignition sw, where and what are they for. How do I wire them into the sys.? #2. The second pic is of the IP, there are 2 shiny blk. hoses running I believe from the oil filter to a unit of some kind that has 2 what look like barb hose fittings. One is shown just above the eng. mnt. the other is to the left of the philips head screw (not below it ). Help!!!!!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7261/7...79560b3a_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8166/7...760e2db0_b.jpg

I can't help with the wiring, but the hoses are for the fuel thermostat. Most people just remove/bypass the fuel thermostat and heater. You just need the hose from the tank going to the lift pump, and the hose from the filter housing going to the return line back to the tank. Everything else is not needed if you want to simplify things.....Rich

I'd ignore that one. Probably another sensor.
Brown is ground obviously, I don't recognize the other colors though. Black is probably the glow light output. The remaining two are ignition signal (probably can be spliced from the ezl) and the cranking signal which can be had from the fuel pump relay, or fusebox if you know what color it is.

Thanks so much for the pic diagram. Where can I get the book or source that this came from? Also I'm not sure what is meant here (probably can be spliced from the ezl) and the cranking signal which can be had from the fuel pump relay.? Did the original 190D 2.2 have a fuel lift pump, if so I may have to add that as I removed the gas fuel pump of the 190E.

The fuel pump relay, if you haven't removed it, has a pin for the cranking signal, which comes via a wire from the fuse box. The EZL unit, which you probably also removed as you appear to have a glow relay there now, would presumably also have an ignition-on wire coming from the fusebox as well.

If you can figure out the colors (those diagrams help, I can see a promising plan of action in there with the socket S deal), then you can just get those two from the source at the fusebox.

Thanks for all the help so far, I found this dia. but I think it is in Germam. Can anyone interprut the items numbered in the box on the right?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8431/7...809d2faa_b.jpg