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  #1  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:13 PM
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220 hard start sometimes???

Car: 1971 220 Diesel
Issues: Hard start only when parked overnight. Rest of the time is fine.
What I have done: Filters, valve adjust.
Need to do: Compression check but need the tools (anyone near Denver willing to help..Please!!!)

Noticed: The hard plastic line that goes from block diaphram to master cylinder has a black color inside. Is there another way to test if diaphram is the colprut?

Currently the subframe bushings need replaced and the rear shocks are gone. But when I come to a stop, esp. in the morning, it shakes pretty darn good.

Thanks for any help/tips

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  #2  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:29 PM
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My thinking:

1. Old fuel line sucks a bubble overnite.

2. Grind starter, pumps fuel & bubble back to tank, runs OK.

3. Park overnite, see step 1
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  #3  
Old 09-05-2012, 11:50 PM
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Moon161 suggestion of a leaky fuel line (or perhaps the primer pump) is a good one.

How long do you pre-warm the glowplugs? How cold does it get at night? Do you adjust your idle knob up in the mornings? How long do you have to crank it and how many times?

Harbor Freight has a compression tester for ~$25, and besides a wrench or two, that is all you need for a compression check. It is not good quality, but sufficient to know if you have 200 psi, 300 psi, or 400 psi.

The vacuum line from pump to the brakes should not be black. This is oil due to a ruptured diaphragm in the vac pump. This is a safety concern and should be looked into. I swapped my vacuum pump diaphragm as my first DIY project on my car, and it was pretty straightforward. This is not the reason that you car has trouble starting.

If it shakes bad in the morning, it may be your engine mounts, your engine shock, perhaps your idle is too low, or perhaps the compression is low so it is misfiring on one or more cylinders.

Good luck.
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2012, 01:33 AM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado220 View Post
Car: 1971 220 Diesel
Issues: Hard start only when parked overnight. Rest of the time is fine.
What I have done: Filters, valve adjust.
Need to do: Compression check but need the tools (anyone near Denver willing to help..Please!!!)

Noticed: The hard plastic line that goes from block diaphragm to master cylinder has a black color inside. Is there another way to test if diaphragm is the culprit?

Currently the subframe bushings need replaced and the rear shocks are gone. But when I come to a stop, esp. in the morning, it shakes pretty darn good.

Thanks for any help/tips
I suspect your compression is good.
The issue is intermittent, primarily at cold start = this leads me to suspect a glow plug issue and/or slow/weak starter.

* At an ambient temperature of 52° F....

* If the glow plugs are perfect; They should be on for thirty seconds, before you try to start.

* If the glow plugs are marginal you may need to cycle them several times.
* If the glow plug circuit is having an intermittent failure (corrosion - wear - age) you will have serious difficulty cold starting regardless of other factors.

It is also possible there is a small air leak in the fuel supply line, leaking down and exacerbating the cold start issue.

In Denver, you can reduce the cold start issue a bit by adding a gallon of kerosene to the fuel tank.

.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2012, 01:37 AM
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FYI

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortsguy1 View Post
Moon161 suggestion of a leaky fuel line (or perhaps the primer pump) is a good one.

How long do you pre-warm the glowplugs? How cold does it get at night? Do you adjust your idle knob up in the mornings? How long do you have to crank it and how many times?

Harbor Freight has a compression tester for ~$25, and besides a wrench or two, that is all you need for a compression check. It is not good quality, but sufficient to know if you have 200 psi, 300 psi, or 400 psi.

The vacuum line from pump to the brakes should not be black. This is oil due to a ruptured diaphragm in the vac pump. This is a safety concern and should be looked into. I swapped my vacuum pump diaphragm as my first DIY project on my car, and it was pretty straightforward. This is not the reason that you car has trouble starting.

If it shakes bad in the morning, it may be your engine mounts, your engine shock, perhaps your idle is too low, or perhaps the compression is low so it is misfiring on one or more cylinders.

Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2012, 03:15 PM
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Do you by any chance park it with the nose facing uphill, even a very light gradient, at night?
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:26 PM
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To answer a few questions.

Glow Plugs: Non original, now are a pencil style. They are about 2 years old.
Prewarm: Never timed it. Will start
Temperature: upper 40's/lower 50's. Not cold by any means
Idle knob: Needs repaired. Currently seized
Starting: After glow plug light has gone out signaling to start car. I cranck for a good 30 seconds to a full minute. Smokes like crazy.

Mounts: All worn out
Parking spot: level

Thanks for all the advice. I will start with fuel lines, they need replaced anyway I am sure. I will also purchase a compression tester.
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2012, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado220 View Post
To answer a few questions.

Glow Plugs: Non original, now are a pencil style. They are about 2 years old.
Prewarm: Never timed it. Will start
Temperature: upper 40's/lower 50's. Not cold by any means
Idle knob: Needs repaired. Currently seized
Starting: After glow plug light has gone out signaling to start car. I cranck for a good 30 seconds to a full minute. Smokes like crazy.

Mounts: All worn out
Parking spot: level

Thanks for all the advice. I will start with fuel lines, they need replaced anyway I am sure. I will also purchase a compression tester.
This sounds like a bad GP or 2.
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  #9  
Old 09-06-2012, 09:36 PM
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After it has sat a long time try pumping a lot on the Hand Primer. If it starts OK after that you are having a Fuel Supply issue where the Fuel is migrating back to the Fuel Tank; sort of the Pump losing prime.
That could be an Air Leak or it could be the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump Valves are worn. If it is the Valves Fastlane sells a kit that does not cost too much.
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2012, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
This sounds like a bad GP or 2.
It is no longer the old loop style plugs. How do I test the newer style. I have read about OHM test, but where do I place the tester tips ans where do I find specs of good/bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
After it has sat a long time try pumping a lot on the Hand Primer. If it starts OK after that you are having a Fuel Supply issue where the Fuel is migrating back to the Fuel Tank; sort of the Pump losing prime.
That could be an Air Leak or it could be the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump Valves are worn. If it is the Valves Fastlane sells a kit that does not cost too much.
I will try this also!
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  #11  
Old 09-07-2012, 03:30 PM
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Answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado220 View Post
It is no longer the old loop style plugs. How do I test the newer style. I have read about OHM test, but where do I place the tester tips ans where do I find specs of good/bad



I will try this also!
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/137732-glow-plugs-link-thread.html#post1019018

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/104547-glow-plug-testing.html#post717956


.
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  #12  
Old 09-07-2012, 03:34 PM
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Thanks!
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  #13  
Old 09-07-2012, 08:26 PM
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Because the Adapter Glow Plugs are wired in Series Parallel (I think that is what it is called) you might need to disconnect the Positive Wire from each Glow Plug in order to Ohm an individual Glow Plug.

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