300 D 5 speed info - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

llensart · #1 10-08-2012, 07:04 PM

I was looking on E bay at a 300D non Turbo 5 Speed manual , can anyone give an opinion on how much more power ( quickness ) and top end between this vehicle and what i have 240 D 4 speed manual ?

Mercedes-Benz : 300-Series 300-D in Mercedes-Benz | eBay Motors

Item # 110961012092

gsxr · #2 10-08-2012, 08:16 PM

Well, a 240D (regardless of transmission) can be outrun by senior citizens in wheelchairs, so you're setting the bar pretty low. That pretty red 300D non-turbo will be quicker but not by a huge amount. You could swap in a turbo motor and THAT would be a big improvement.

Given that pricetag though, you'd be crazy to buy it, or any W123 for >$5k. Spend $5k on a pristine late model W124 (i.e., 1995 E300 or E420) and you'll have 10x the car for the same money. Trust me. I've owned several W123's and I hope to never own another. The fact that your original question inquired about "quickness" and "power" automatically makes you a prime candidate for W124 ownership.

barry12345 · #3 10-08-2012, 08:32 PM

At least a little faster with the one additional cylinder. The cruise rpms would be lower. All the gear ratios in the transmission are exactly the same as your 240d manual except it has a fifth gear overdrive.

The rear end may be a little taller as well. If you are interested in this car have it checked out well before commiting to it. I do not like no pictures of the drivers seat other than a description it is torn up. At the claimed milage I would expect better. Tjhe n/a five cylinder engine does not do as well fuel consumption wise as the turbo five cylinder engine usually. Their claim of a mid thirties milage potential is a bit of a stretch to me. You might see thirty is a more likely senario if not pushing the car on the highway.

Also the thread poster quoting the newer models in the same price range may have a point as well. You can get thirty five mpg out of some of them and comfort is better. I suspect inexperienced 123 owners are going to bid this car up further than it may be worth.

PackerEdgerton · #4 10-08-2012, 08:47 PM

In general, I agree with the sentiments here, although I admit to being surprised by gsxr's dislike of W123s. I like my 240D quite a lot.

The 240D, with 4-speed manual, (assuming the gear ratios are identical in the 4 gears) is not fast, but it is very solid, and keeps up with modern traffic without incident. I would even say that at lower speeds it is reasonably nimble! Mine certainly is.

Given that my 240D can do 0-60 in around 16-18 seconds, I would wager that a 300D with a little more curb weight but 90HP would probably be a couple of seconds faster, I would guess 13-14 seconds. That would be very nice!

Of course, if you added a turbo, and this got it up to say 124HP, then you'd be in the 10-11 seconds 0-60. Still not fast, but I would say that is pretty nimble!

Still, if you are concerned about quickness and top-end, I agree that you're probably not looking in the right place!

Now, ruggedness and reliability? YEP. No electronics controlling the engine or any vital functions? Yep. Easy upkeep (even compared to W124). Yep. Easy to get parts? Yep. Cheap to keep running (assuming you do most of the work yourself). Yep.

Sincerely,

Packman

gsxr · #5 10-08-2012, 11:10 PM

You have to keep in mind the W123 was designed in the 1960's and went into production in the 1970's. At the time, it was a fantastic car, despite being underpowered. And when the W124's cost significantly more, the W123 still made some sense. But it's 2012 now. W124's are available for under $2k as fixxer-uppers and $5-$7k will get you a pristine one. With ABS, dual airbags, tons of power (compared to the W123), enormously more competent chassis, and overall refinement. Not to mention optional traction control, heated/orthopedic seats, better fuel economy, etc, etc. And, they are not that much more complicated, despite what some people may think. It used to be that 124 parts were hard to come by via salvage yards, but not any more... and new parts are no more costly than they are for the 123.

I owned a 240D four-speed manual, and two W123 300D Turbos. They were decent cars but they're quicky becoming dinosaurs. The red one in the eBay listing is beautiful, but more of a collector's item, IMO. For a daily driver, the W124 makes far more sense. Almost all of the 123's flaws were corrected in the 124, and few new flaws appeared. It was a win-win. I now own a half-dozen or so 124's. All I can figure is that most 123 owners have never driven a good 124, and/or they don't want to admit the 124 is as good as it is.

For the record, I think a W123 is an ideal car for a new teenage driver. Safe, cheap, and slow enough to help keep a newbie driver out of trouble. But when they grow up, they'll want to upgrade to a W124 (or probably any other MB from the 1990's).

If you've never driven a W124, try to find a clean 1994-95 model and take it for a long test drive. Preferably a really clean example, not a beater. Just watch out of the 500E's, they're highly addictive!

dude99 · #6 10-08-2012, 11:17 PM

Quote:

All the gear ratios in the transmission are exactly the same as your 240d manual except it has a fifth gear overdrive.

I was under the impression that the w123 5-speed wasn't an overdrive transmission....

vstech · #7 10-09-2012, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude99

I was under the impression that the w123 5-speed wasn't an overdrive transmission....

you were mistaken.

sixto · #8 10-09-2012, 12:44 AM

You were misimpressed

The 190E 2.3-16 5-speed transmission is not an overdrive box.

Sixto
87 300D

Codifex Maximus · #9 10-09-2012, 02:03 AM

You start driving that pretty burgundy W123 300D and it's not gonna be what looks like a collector's item anymore.

If you've got the bux then go to it but as the other's said, you can buy a W126 in great shape and use it as a daily for much less money.

Now, some people would kill for a manual 5 speed...

JB3 · #10 10-09-2012, 09:55 AM

ebay ad says its a turbo 5cyl with a 5-speed and factory ordered amazingly. ad also says it has a 717.400 gearbox. Arent those the ones with the separate bell housing and a fifth gear ratio .813?

instead of 90, more like 130hp, but the ad does say 90hp, AND it also describes the car as a turbo variant. that car would be very entertaining to drive. If its factory, I wonder what they used for a rear end, and a flywheel. my feeling is the stock turbo 3.07 diff would be great with an overdrive option, in fact, ive been glacially building that myself forever.

This car should be snapped up, even at that price. Looks like a very very nice example, and would be very capable of keeping up with traffic and cruising economically at highway speeds

EDIT-

From the pics, that car definitely is a non turbo, from the NA manifold, and I failed to read the sellers note that makes that clear. Too bad, I wish it were so.

I guess its only an extremely rare 5-speed NA version.

gsxr · #11 10-09-2012, 10:05 AM

Datacard says the red beauty has a 717.400 manual trans. Anyone know the ratios? I found this post that says 5th gear ratio is 0.813.

I believe both the 190E-16 and R129 300SL had close-ratio manuals with 1:1 fifth gear. Most others had overdrive fifth, but it's hard to get official data on the exact ratios for specific boxes...

gsxr · #12 10-09-2012, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

From the pics, that car definitely is a non turbo, from the NA manifold. We all need to bombard the seller to edit his ad.

The seller already updated the ad to state it's a non-turbo.

JB3 · #13 10-09-2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

Datacard says the red beauty has a 717.400 manual trans. Anyone know the ratios? I found this post that says 5th gear ratio is 0.813.

I believe both the 190E-16 and R129 300SL had close-ratio manuals with 1:1 fifth gear. Most others had overdrive fifth, but it's hard to get official data on the exact ratios for specific boxes...

I know that the 201 chassis 717.411 and 717.412 were both overdrive, I think .8 as well. However helpful that may be.

I have one of each of those in various states of disrepair

JB3 · #14 10-09-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

The seller already updated the ad to state it's a non-turbo.

yeah, I got all excited and became blind to the written word. edited my above post.

it was all the salivating and frothing going on

JustPassinThru · #15 10-11-2012, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsxr

...W124's are available for under $2k as fixxer-uppers and $5-$7k will get you a pristine one. With ABS, dual airbags, tons of power (compared to the W123), enormously more competent chassis, and overall refinement. Not to mention...All I can figure is that most 123 owners have never driven a good 124, and/or they don't want to admit the 124 is as good as it is...

Hi gsxr,

Seeing as how I now have $2600 kicking around in my pocket from my insurance company, after totalling my 1985 300D...what would you recommend I shop for, in a diesel station wagon? The W124 wagons don't seem like they would have a decent amount of hp compared to the 300D's 120 or so.