What does anyone know about Blue Tec - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

theref · #1 02-11-2013, 09:05 PM

I am unfortunately in the market for a new, reliable cruiser for my drives a couple times a year from Seattle to Calif. My 1998 7 Series was totaled at a red light late last year. I would like to know your thoughts about the e350 Blue tech 2010-2013. It is a 3 liter v6 diesel which we all know is a Mercedes diesel and therefore guaranteed to do a million miles. There is not much of a track record on these engines and I would like to know what you have heard. I do not even know the Wxxx or the OM6xxx for these cars and I would like to be brought up to speed. I cannot stay in 1987 forever-though I would like to. I also hear that there will be a body style change/new model for the 2014's.

pawoSD · #2 02-11-2013, 10:00 PM

Variants of the engine have been in use for quite a while around the world, including in those giant Fedex sprinters you see roaring around. Its a pretty proven engine at this point. I am guessing a 2010-2013 E-class diesel is going to be much more reliable than a '98 7series.

turbobenz · #3 02-11-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

Variants of the engine have been in use for quite a while around the world, including in those giant Fedex sprinters you see roaring around. Its a pretty proven engine at this point. I am guessing a 2010-2013 E-class diesel is going to be much more reliable than a '98 7series.

Don't sprinters use a straight five?

Skid Row Joe · #4 02-11-2013, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theref

I am unfortunately in the market for a new, reliable cruiser for my drives a couple times a year from Seattle to Calif. My 1998 7 Series was totaled at a red light late last year. I would like to know your thoughts about the e350 Blue tech 2010-2013. It is a 3 liter v6 diesel which we all know is a Mercedes diesel and therefore guaranteed to do a million miles. There is not much of a track record on these engines and I would like to know what you have heard. I do not even know the Wxxx or the OM6xxx for these cars and I would like to be brought up to speed. I cannot stay in 1987 forever-though I would like to. I also hear that there will be a body style change/new model for the 2014's.

I will first respond to that which I highlighted IN BOLD in your post.

I have heard/read absolutely nothing negative about the 3.0 V6 that was started being installed in the 2007 E320 Bluetecs. If there were glaring defects, I think we'd of heard by now, in 2013.

The 2011/12 E350 Bluetecs utilize this engine. I would have no hesitation buying one, were I interested in the W212 E350 turbodiesel.

Skid Row Joe · #5 02-11-2013, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbobenz

Don't sprinters use a straight five?

Early years? The straight-six (I6) shared with the 2005/06 E320 CDI.

For several years now? The 3.0 V6 configuration shared with the 2007 & Up E320 Bluetec.

jcyuhn · #6 02-12-2013, 11:46 AM

It's the OM642 V6 diesel. Perfectly decent engine, and Sprinters have been using it in the U.S. for a number of years. I have one in a 2008 E320 Bluetec.

I would suggest buying an E350 gasser and skipping the diesel, for a couple of reasons. Primarily because the operating cost simply isn't low enough to justify the extra expense. The w212 bluetec uses adblue Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF). There is a tank in the trunk which must be refilled each time the car is serviced (10K miles). The dealer will charge approx $200 for the refill, in addition to the service costs. This alone goes a long ways toward negating any fuel cost savings.

The adblue tank replaces the spare tire. So the car is equipped with runflat tires. Runflats are very expensive to replace and generally don't provide very good ride, noise, or handling.

The other downside is risk of expensive repairs. The bluetec engine has a number of features to improve economy and exhaust emissions that don't exist on a gasoline engine. One is the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). DPF collects and burns the soot - you'll never see smoke out the back of the bluetec. It works great, but sometimes they clog and must be cleaned or replaced. A DPF replacement is $3K, give or take. The bluetec also uses common rail high pressure injection. I have read of instances of expensive repairs caused by water contamination or bad fuel that were impressively expensive to repair. Do some googling, though of course take what you find with a large grain of salt. In summary, diesel engines have gotten much more complex than gasoline engines, and correspondingly the risk and cost of repairs is higher. In the U.S., I don't feel the fuel cost savings justify the diesel.

That said, I do own a 2008 (w211) E320 bluetec - the spouse likes diesel cars, what can I say? It has been a great car, and relatively trouble free. The older w211 does not use adblue, so there is some cost savings, and of course it has a spare tire.

My $.02, though probably not worth that much...

- JimY

vstech · #7 02-12-2013, 11:55 AM

meh. stay in 1987. spend 10% of the cost of the adblue car and update the 87 with a full on service/restoration and drive happy for the next 20 years...

vstech · #8 02-12-2013, 11:59 AM

I just reread your post...
the FACTORY CRATE ENGINE only has 65K on it??? and you are planning a replacement car?
that's crazy!
what's the issue with your current car? handling? accoutrements? (do you want a cup holder?) power? MPG?
I cannot fathom what it would take to get me out of 1987...

turbobenz · #9 02-12-2013, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

I just reread your post...
the FACTORY CRATE ENGINE only has 65K on it??? and you are planning a replacement car?
that's crazy!
what's the issue with your current car? handling? accoutrements? (do you want a cup holder?) power? MPG?
I cannot fathom what it would take to get me out of 1987...

Oh but it has built in navigation and seats that move when you go around turns!

Zulfiqar · #10 02-12-2013, 03:17 PM

I have driven an E220 CDI and also an E270 CDI both in the W210 chassis, those engines are really incredible when it comes to power:size ratio. The 220 CDI could do smoke burnouts on a W210 easily, Both cars would trip the ESP into crazy if I did a WOT start on any sort of road.

This was not in the US though.

The engines are common rail and have about 1600 bar fuel rail pressure under load - sound a bit like a volvo 18 wheeler at idle too. not the sweet clack of the OM606 but more of a rumble.

They have their own set of finickies like cleaning the coal mine that gets lodged in the intake manifold and other tests. In EU there are a few dozen service centres for these cars in major metro cities hence no issues, in US its a problem as only MB or some chrysler dealers will repair them.

jay_bob · #11 02-12-2013, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech

meh. stay in 1987. spend 10% of the cost of the adblue car and update the 87 with a full on service/restoration and drive happy for the next 20 years...

That's my plan...here's my thoughts.

DEF - They can keep that tank of pee in the trunk. One more green boondoggle I have no desire to mess with. We had to do a gen system out in CA with DPFs and pee tanks. Have you ever smelled that stuff, its nasty.

Common rail = computer = one more thing that is impossible to fix without a phd from MBZ. The EDS of the early 124s is simple, and if it dies, the car will idle like crap but is still drivable. Lots of 3rd party mechanics who can fix injector pumps out there.

Navigation - you can find Garmins on sale with lifetime maps for less than $100, that are way better than factory navi, or just use your phone. Say you pick up a 2008 with navi, if the database hasn't been updated I bet it is several hundred dollars for the update disk.

Cup holder - I found one at bed bath and beyond that works great. Clamps on the side of the center junk catcher behind the shifter.

Plus the other benefits. Insurance is dirt cheap on an 87, even with full coverage and a teen driver it is just over $100/mo. If your state does value based tags that is another winner. My tags for the Pilot in SC are over $1000, the CR-V is about $150, and the 300TD is under $50.

And my son definitely has the most unusual car at the high school. A couple of his friends gave him grief for it being a wagon but changed their minds after riding in it. I suspect the engine being operated north of 3k rpm had something to do with it.

. And Bohemian Rhapsody on the original Becker, on tape.

socalbenz · #12 02-12-2013, 06:00 PM

Read his post more carefully. He is replacing the totaled 98 7 series BMW. He does not mention any plans to part with the 300D.

vstech · #13 02-12-2013, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalbenz

Read his post more carefully. He is replacing the totaled 98 7 series BMW. He does not mention any plans to part with the 300D.

yup, that's what is in the post, but his "I can't stay in 87 forever" makes us think he's planning to retire the 87 as well...
I'm of the mind that he find a great 87 and update it to last into the 30's good restoration parts should get an 87 to last till 2030 and beyond!

pawoSD · #14 02-12-2013, 10:46 PM

The whole ad-blue exhaust system is ridiculous in design. Though once the cars are older I am sure things will be available (or can be made) to make it think it has the systems in place and eliminate most/if not all of it from the vehicle.

How does having to purchase several gallons of chemical in big plastic bottles that need to be discarded every 10k help the environment vs having ever so slightly higher exhaust emissions? Its just like having a hybrid with a huge environment destroying battery and gobs of electronics, your just relocating the pollution.

theref · #15 02-13-2013, 09:33 AM

Thanks everyone for the comments. The thoughts expressed are exactly what i was looking for-and cannot be found just by googling which provides laudatory press reviews and minimal carping. I did however learn a couple of things. First, although the E350 coupe is very nice looking, it is really more of a C platform car-the ultimate Pretenz Benz. Second, I saw many instances where dealers were charging upwards of $300 for the urea refill. Third, I learned that Mercedes leases are for 2 years with a max mileage of 10K/year. This is why you will see so many CPO cars with 15-18K on the clock. It seems that there is a good amount of negotiating room for these cars. Fourth, those run flats are a deal breaker for me. The cost for a replacement is about $650/tire and the biggest problem is availability of the size that you need in the location where you need it. Last, MB is coming out with an E250 Blue Tec in the fall with 4 cylinders.

I did not intend to retire the 87-although the molting paint causes my wife to implore me to do so. It will remain my DD for the foreseeable future. I do not want a Nav system since I can read both road signs and maps and have a good sense of direction. Not to mention that I generally have been down the roads that i travel before. My wife has even forced me to ask for directions.

I was looking for a replacement of the 740IL both to do the long drives to CA which I found to be so enjoyable in a big, fast luxobarge. I will be retiring in a couple of years and wanted a car with less maintenance needs than either the 98 or the 87. I know that AdBlue can be refilled as a DIY task but the maintenance schedule at dealer prices seems intimidating.

I would sure like to hear from vstech how/what/where the appearance update can be accomplished-short of a $100K run through the Vintage Center in SoCal.