Am I stupid, crazy, or a glutton for punishment? (I'm considering a newer MBZ diesel) - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

whunter · #16 03-11-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTooHot

I’ve been selling off my fleet to consolidate down to two or three cars. I’ll keep my trusty & much loved W124 E300D with 402,000+ miles on her, but I am *thinking* about getting a newer car. Either an impeccably maintained W210 turbo (’98 or ’99) or a ’05-’06 W211 CDI. (A nice CDI is probably much easier to find than an enthusiast-owned W210 for sale.)

I am planning on many cross-country road trips during the next few years, and want something that is #1.) Reliable, #2.) RELIABLE, #3.) Gets great mileage, #4.) I can do (most) of the work on it myself, #6.) Built to Last,… and #7.) RELIABLE.

I’ve started reading up on various threads, but I would love a synopsis of opinions and pluses & minuses about either model.

I vote for seriously deranged Mercedes Fanatic.

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RunningTooHot · #17 03-11-2013, 08:17 PM

Yeeehhhhh baby! Now we're cookin'! That truck sure would be simple, reliable, long lived, and... well... built like a truck! Not so sure the fuel mileage would have me jumping for joy though.

Signed,
Seriously Deranged
(but not necessarily *just* regarding Mercedes Benz vehicles.)

jcyuhn · #18 03-12-2013, 10:42 AM

I get a little bent out of shape when people post along the lines of "all 211 cars are junk" or "all newer MBs are worse than older MBs." I don't think that's where you are coming from; hope you don't perceive my response as aggressive, that's not my intent. OK, onto real content.

MB is offering a 10 year warranty on the SBC unit. So those '05-'06 cars are covered, but also nearing the end of the warranty period.

The 722.9 definately had some teething problems. However I only recall hearing about issues with shift quality and other subjective issues, but little or nothing in the way of mechanical failures. That said, this trans has been used across the model lines since '06, give or take a year. So again, if it really is problematic, I think it's been out there long enough that we would know about it. I do like the way it keeps upshifting as you accelerate onto the highway. My Bluetec turns 1800 RPM at 70MPH, makes for a fantastic highway car.

I think there is a downside risk to driving a newer car without warranty coverage. While the chance of a major engine or transmission repair is quite small, it is not zero. There's always the chance somebody fills the car with gasoline and drives it. I figure on $10K to rebuild the engine in such case. I don't think you'll find a junkyard engine for these newer cars, they are just too rare. There's a definate economic advantage to driving a more common car such as a Honda, or even something like an E350 that outsells the diesel probably 50-1.

If you want to dig up more discussion on the newer cars, may I suggest using google to search over at mbworld. While I'm not a huge fan of the community over there, it does seem to have a larger community of newer cars vs. the focus on older models and technical discussions that go on here.

whunter · #19 03-12-2013, 03:39 PM

Interesting options.

1999 Mercedes-Benz E-Class Diesel

1999 Mercedes E300 Turbo Diesel

1999 Mercedes 320e 4matic

Mercedes 1992 300SD Diesel

1996 Mercedes Benz E300 Diesel e320 e class

1997 Mercedes E300D

1997 Mercedes E350 $4000 obo

You did say CDI... ROFL
Smart Fortwo by Mercedes, cdi (tdi) diesel 55mpg

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RunningTooHot · #20 03-12-2013, 03:54 PM

Once again, I appreciate your input & sentiment. It is absolutely NOT my intention to disparage newer models, nor cover them with any blanket statement, i.e., “their all junk”. I wouldn’t be considering purchasing one if I felt that was true. (A Luddite mentality would have caused me to keep my W107’s and my W123, - and I would never have bought a W124.)

I am trying to make an informed decision, and it really is a matter of it being a calculated risk. I would like that risk assessment to be based upon a foundation of actual facts versus perception, speculation, or assumption; therefore I opened this thread.

I tend to keep my cars a long LONG time. And indeed, on older models, it is typically the ancillary systems that become problematic with age, not necessarily the major drivetrain components. That being said, there is SO much more (and complex) “stuff” that could *potentially* go wrong on the newer cars. That’s simply the “cost” of an improved (modern) overall experience.

Would I rather drive a BlueTec on a cross-country road trip, or drive my W123 or one of my W124’s? The choice is obvious – I’d love to cruise in the W211. I *know* the W123 would get there without a hiccup. I’m *pretty darn sure* the W124 would make it too. I just want to be comfortable feeling that after 200,000+ miles the W211 won’t have a propensity to need a tow truck when I’m in the middle of nowhere.

You once again bring up very good points. It would probably be wise to spend lots more money up front for a CPO car and paying extra for a LONG warranty. I would then try to have *everything* possible done prior to expiration of the warranty. At that point, I surmise that my experience would have me either sell the car if it has been problematic, or keep it if it’s been reliable. I guess that only time will tell us about longevity…

PS – there is a thread at that “other” forum about “how many miles are on your E-class” – that thread IS a bit scary when you see the repairs necessary at relatively low mileages. I also recognize that people tend to complain when things go wrong, but are silent when all is well. Therefore, there is a disproportionate population of problems reported.

Thanks Again!

Volker · #21 03-12-2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcyuhn

I get a little bent out of shape when people post along the lines of "all 211 cars are junk" or "all newer MBs are worse than older MBs." I don't think that's where you are coming from; hope you don't perceive my response as aggressive, that's not my intent. OK, onto real content.

You gotta admit though that we (in areas more northerly) got screwed with rust issues in newer MB's (maybe not 211's but certainly 210's, 208's, 202's etc)... while older MB were relatively good compared to other cars in regards to rust, these ones were worse. What's more, is that other cars went from what they were, to amazingly good (galvanized steel I imagine mostly) in the same period (let's say 1975 to 2005).

jcyuhn · #22 03-12-2013, 06:08 PM

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Don't have a clue where you are located, but how about this one: 2006 Mercedes-benz E-class E320 Diesel NAV. Can't say I follow pricing on these, but doesn't seem to bad considering it has 62K miles.

dtf · #23 03-12-2013, 09:00 PM

I did not read all replies thoroughly - please forgive if I repeat something here. I have '99 E300 TD. Rust bucket? yes. Fast? Yes. Good mileage? Yes. Serious lighting problems and electrical ghosts? Yes. Glow plug problems that cost over $ 800 to fix? Yes. It is in the shop as we speak for various problem. It is half the car my '94 E320 wagon was. I would go with newer technology here. My opinion.

RunningTooHot · #24 03-13-2013, 10:05 AM

whunter: That Smart car *may* work if we stretch it 40” and turn it into a (not so)Smart Limousine.

jcyuhn: I’m in southern California, but I would travel to get the right car. The one you linked to is VERY nice indeed! It’s at a Lexus dealer – a trade-in car? (I guess that I should start researching aftermarket vs. MBZ warranties?)

dtf: Could you please expand upon the lighting & electrical problems that you’ve experienced?

Thanks Again everyone!

jcyuhn · #25 03-13-2013, 10:38 AM

I don't know anything about that particular car. But if a high end dealer like Park Place has kept something as old as an '06 on their lot, it must be nice. In that market a 7 year old car is positively ancient. I have bought a car from Park Place MB in Dallas and they were good to deal with.

Skid Row Joe · #26 03-14-2013, 04:33 AM

There's a lot to say about buying a CPO MB from a MB dealer, but I'd feel almost as good buying the same year model car with far fewer (-70%) miles on it, with only a 30 day bumper-to-bumper unlimited mileage warranty on it for about the same price.

Buy as much car as money you want to part with. That's what I do, and have done in the past. Knowing that if you buy a cheap Mercedes-Benz, that it may be the costliest/biggest money headache you have keeping it roadworthy.

I was very interested recently in a costly, low-miled 2008 E320 Bluetec, but when I started comparing it with the three year newer, 2011 E350 Bluetecs available to me with the same low, low miles - and remainder of full MB factory 4 year / 50K mile warranty, for just a few thousand more dollars than a low-miled W211? That's where I hit the brick wall as being indecisive making the choice between the two. The W211 can't compare in it's all around drive/handling with the upgraded W212, according to an off-lease retailer here I talked to last week. He has a large in-flow of fresh, low-miles, two year old, clean Carfax, off-lease E350 Bluetecs, at the best prices in the Country right now. The flow of off-lease W212 E350 BTCs (Bluetecs) are flooding the sales market across the U.S. Just look at the dozens of them on AutoTrader dot com. Still, I just don't want to pull the trigger in parting with what a low-miled 2011 W212 BTC costs - way too much money to part with at this time.

However, as my bought new always garaged in Dallas, Texas '99 E300TD with 129K miles on it, is awaiting it's pending out-of-state-transfer to it's new owners I have lined-up, I'm conflicted with how much of a car (any car) in dollars I want to come out of pocket for buying a used car. I'm still on the fence, but do a little on-line shopping every day or so.

The '99 E300TD has been a very enjoyable car to own, but not w/o it's repair costs. All in all, I'm glad I have owned/driven it in my 14th year of ownership, but I doubt I'll ever buy another MB new. Waay too much money out-the-window on depreciation to me. Used, is definitely the way to buy these things. How used, you may ask? That, is up to you.......

RunningTooHot · #27 03-14-2013, 11:22 AM

Jcyuhn:

That Dallas car is very tempting, but I’m not actually going to pull the trigger until I’m back from Europe in late June – unless something comes up that’s too compelling to pass on. For now, I’m doing my due diligence & research.

Skid Row Joe:

I am facing the EXACT same dilemma as you are – trying to justify just *how much* money I’m willing to part with, and questioning what I actually get for that money. This would be a purchase driven by sybaritic desires, not necessity.

The “fork in the road” is either:
A.) Buying an older car and mentally reserving $$$ towards refurbishment & future repairs, or
B.) Buying a much newer model, and hoping that I wouldn’t have any significant additional expenses – at least for a while.

The wild card is again both long-term Reliability & Longevity. On a cross country trip, I don’t want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with a non-running car. If an ancillary system fails, it’s an annoyance. If the car becomes incapacitated 300 miles from the nearest MBZ repair facility, that’s another thing altogether.

P.S. – Skid Row Joe: I found your car on Autotrader. It is exactly what I’d be looking for IF I were to go the w210 route. Could you please tell me why you sold it, and what issues you had with it over the years?

jcyuhn · #28 03-14-2013, 12:00 PM

I just tossed up that '06 to tease you. That said, I am sure you understand that it's all about timing and being prepared to jump on the right car. It's rate to find diesels driven less than 10K miles/year.

I might follow up if I can figure out what sybaritic means.

barry12345 · #29 03-14-2013, 12:58 PM

The newer the car the shorter the planned ownership period may be smarter than with cars of the past. Unless you are willing and competent enough to deal with the issues yourself. It is almost a given there wil be issues.

Otherwise one may risk a moneypit. In todays world a modern car with reasonable total milage should not have volumes of the services required existing other than routine oil changes etc.

Some of the higher line japanese cars are a good example of what should be expected. But mercedes is not producing that level of dependability in their cars. .

As one result the luxory brands of japanese cars seem to depreciate slower once the initial hit is taken. I was looking at a more modern mercedes diesel with better fuel milage. Until I realised the excess expected maintenance could quickly offsett any fuel milage gains from a financial perspective. If not making it the most expensive car for the cost per mile on the road over time.

Then again we all have free choice on how we spend our disposable income. Just keeping the rose colored glasses off so we know what we are getting into is hard sometimes. For example there is a 99 diesel for sale right now with a claimed under forty thousand miles.

Why do I feel that car would have to undergo a very serious inspection before I would even consider it? A car in todays world with that milage if true should be in really great mechanical shape with everything working properly and no rust issues. Maybe it is and then maybe not. It also has those problamatic front spring perches to consider.

Skid Row Joe · #30 03-14-2013, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningTooHot

Jcyuhn:

That Dallas car is very tempting, but I’m not actually going to pull the trigger until I’m back from Europe in late June – unless something comes up that’s too compelling to pass on. For now, I’m doing my due diligence & research.

Skid Row Joe:

I am facing the EXACT same dilemma as you are – trying to justify just *how much* money I’m willing to part with, and questioning what I actually get for that money. This would be a purchase driven by sybaritic desires, not necessity.

The “fork in the road” is either:
A.) Buying an older car and mentally reserving $$$ towards refurbishment & future repairs, or
B.) Buying a much newer model, and hoping that I wouldn’t have any significant additional expenses – at least for a while.

The wild card is again both long-term Reliability & Longevity. On a cross country trip, I don’t want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with a non-running car. If an ancillary system fails, it’s an annoyance. If the car becomes incapacitated 300 miles from the nearest MBZ repair facility, that’s another thing altogether.

P.S. – Skid Row Joe: I found your car on Autotrader. It is exactly what I’d be looking for IF I were to go the w210 route. Could you please tell me why you sold it, and what issues you had with it over the years?

RunningTooHot,

Well, if you found it on AT? I am not running it there, however if you meant CL? That may be mine. If so, you now know it's not at a give-away price. Depending on the ad you saw, I have listed all the procedures and parts replacements that I have done to the car since new. I had it sold twice for $1K more than it's listed for now, during the past two years, but decided each time to hold on to it. This time, unless my family members that have stated that they want it, back out - it'll be on it's way to Mobile, Alabama, or Omaha, NE. May 1st/2nd or so from Dallas, Texas - where it's been garaged since I bought it new 14 years ago. I'm basically passing it on to the next generation that is interested in owning it - as our Father passed-on his '77 MB 240D to my generation when 7-years old in 1984. The '99 W210 diesel is the 5th MB diesel our family has purchased going back to a '69 220D. All, but my sig. pictured '83 300SD diesel bought new. The fact of the matter is that these cars (MB diesels) are made so well, that it isn't necessary to buy them anywhere near new - to get maximum value out of them. I think we all (on Diesel Forum) know that.

What you describe above from your wants/desires - a 2011 E350 BTC fills the need, with remaining MB factory warranty. The 2008 E320 Bluetec I was interested in had less than 20K miles on it, was in near perfect condition, but also carried a non-negotiable firm price of $31K. No warranty past 30-days, bumper-to-bumper. Stay with me now.......a 2011 E350 BTC with less than 25K miles can be had all day for about $36K, with 2-years of MB factory warranty on it - so, you can see that what I thought I wanted - a 2008, has become compressed in price with the near-new, used 2011s. Quite the quandary for me. A few grand one way or the other is in my ballpark. As I wrote in my last post, I'm going to wait for the 2011s to come down in price for several months or a year or more - and by then, I may not even want one. Mercedes-Benz is coming out with a 4-cylinder, lighter weight body turbodiesel sedan E-Class in 2014, that is supposed to get a lot better mpg than these very plush and heavy E-Class W211/W212s.

If I recall correctly, the W210 @ #3,400, went to a W211 @ #3,800, which went to a W212 @ #4,089!

They're so damm big, they remind me of my first Cadillac in 1974! Frankly, for me it's overkill to buy that much of a car in size, dollars, etc.

That's my deal in a nutshell. To me, spending $20K to $40K on a used MB diesel, is not something I want to do anytime soon. Color me undecided and tight-fisted wanting to hold back at this point.

RunningTooHot,

The biggest problem on these newer post '95 MB diesels, is that they all seem to have weak points or computer/lighting/brake system glitches that can rear their ugly heads, costing the owner up to thousands of dollars a year to fix - to keep them on-the-road. The 240Ds / 300Ds / 300TDs /300SDs - no....they just did not, and do not cost that much to keep them running on-the-road. Therein lies the diesel dilemma today, from my perspective. That is why some of us long for the days with previous gen. MB diesels.....

jcyuhn has about the best handle on these W211s I've read, since he's owned them and driving them a lot.