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#1
03-20-2013, 04:38 PM
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Vacuum pump noise, OM617
Greetings all-
Got my OM617 running, knocking timing pump. I yanked the pump, started the engine, the noise went away. No obvious wear on the pump or the timing device, what should I look at next? Thanks all! Last edited by OM617YOTA; 03-20-2013 at 06:59 PM. 
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#2
03-20-2013, 05:21 PM
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You should look at a new vacuum pump
 . If the vacuum pump bearings are worn it will fail at the most inconvenient time and take out the timing chain with it. When you say the timing device has no obvious wear I'm not sure if you mean the surface where the timing pump rides or if you have disassembled the timing device to check for wear in the advance mechanism. The weights could be clanking around in there.
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'82 300D - Light Ivory, 2nd Owner (Back in the wind April 2013!) '95 E300D - White, grey interior. (Suffering from stuck/broken glow plugs) Deuteronomy 22:4- "Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift them up again."
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#3
03-20-2013, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Thank you! My apologies, my first post was made while on break at work, and was necessarily brief. This engine has been swapped into a 1990 Toyota pickup. Before purchasing the engine, I drove the '83 300SD donor car around the junk yard to verify all was well. No knock then, or obviously I'd have not purchased it. During the swap, it was necessary to remove the vacuum pump so that the engine would fit into the truck, and after the engine was resting securely on it's mounts, I reinstalled the vacuum pump. Got the engine started after some trials and now the vacuum pump is knocking. Removed the vacuum pump, started the engine and ran it without the vacuum pump, no knock. And a much smaller mess than I was expecting. Timing device appears to have much less than the 1mm specified movement. There is what appears to my untrained eyes to be normal wear on the roller coaster track where the roller wheel would run on it, and likewise on the wheel, and no wear anywhere else. Mostly I'm wondering what I boogered up while removing and reinstalling the vacuum pump. It did sit for several months between my purchase and being run again, could that cause one to go bad? I greased the rollercoaster track, ball, and bearings before reinstalling. It's of the open-cage-bearing type, so I'll be replacing/rebuilding it regardless to protect my timing chain. Thanks all. I looked for several hours on this site before I posted. I truly appreciate the help, and I'll post pics and video of the conversion when it's finished.
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#4
03-20-2013, 07:32 PM
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The knocking could be your timing device slamming back and forth if the brass bushing in back of the timing device is warn. Its easy to check for this problem, grab hold if the timing device and make sure there is almost NO lateral movement. There was 2.5 mms in the one I had that destroyed the VP of a 240D of mine. I didn't hear it run but I'm betting there was some noise. That engine was in a burned out parts car and was said to be good but I pulled the VP just to check it and found the damage before the ball bearings came adrift.
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 1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K 1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild 1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K 1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor 2014 Kubota L3800 tractor 1964 VW bug "Lifes too short to drive a boring car"
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#5
03-20-2013, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
 I would replace the pump if its knocking, or else its going to take the engine with it.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-  '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)
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#6
03-20-2013, 09:26 PM
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
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#7
03-20-2013, 10:18 PM
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Thanks everyone. Looks like I need to borrow a dial indicator and so some measuring. Eyeballing the timing device while I wiggle it, it appears to have less than 1mm movement in all directions - axially and radially.
Why would it not make noise before I yanked it, and then make noise afterwards? Thanks again, all.
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#8
03-20-2013, 11:50 PM
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End plan of intermediate sprocket shaft: 0.05-0.12mm.
In section 07.1-240 of the Service Manual; Removal and Installation of the Injection Timing Device (617.952)
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel Last edited by Diesel911; 03-21-2013 at 12:19 AM.
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#9
03-21-2013, 03:52 PM
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Thank you Mr. 911. I did read that thread doing my research ahead of time, guess I should have payed more attention. My T/D is definitely moving more than 0.12mm, no need to use a dial indicator to see that. Bushing time it is.
I'm still baffled about why there was no noise before I removed the vacuum pump, then noise started after I removed and reinstalled the vacuum pump, and then went away again once I removed the vacuum pump and ran the motor without the vacuum pump at all. The T/D is moving out of spec and the bushing needs to be replaced, no questions there, but wouldn't the T/D still make noise, even with the vacuum pump removed? I know I need to check timing chain stretch, cam timing, and injection timing. 95% sure I'll be replacing the timing chain and tensioner after that. I'm already planning on doing the injectors and reaming the glow plug chambers. I'm really looking forward to getting this diesel back in proper shape and good condition. I'll drive it for a while once it's in proper OEM tune and condition, then decide if I want to do some pump tweaks. Thank you all tremendously for the help. I hope to learn enough to repay the community.
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#10
03-21-2013, 04:00 PM
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If I remember correctly the intermediate shaft play should be measured with the IP removed...
...that makes things a little more tricky. I think you should measure it with the IP on first though just to get an idea. I am surprised that the vacuum pump was good before in the SD and now it isn't. Did you clean out the insides with brake cleaner (or something like that) before you refitted it?
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior  Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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#11
03-21-2013, 09:42 PM
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Stretch-
I didn't completely clean the innards of the vacuum pump. I did remove and clean the main check valve immediately under the vacuum port because it looked like there was dust or some other kind of debris inside the port. Pretty sure I used just soap, water, and compressed air, but very possible I used WD40 afterward as a moisture dispersant or similar. I don't specifically remember using brake cleaner, but I won't swear that I didn't either. I did grease the bearings, roller wheel, and roller coaster part of the timing device before reassembling. I've since disassembled the vacuum pump, and found lots of oil residue inside the pump. Not sure how normal this is, I can post photos. I just got done having a good long listen to my frankentruck's OM617 using the stick-as-stethoscope method, with the VP removed. Definitely sounds like there's something going on in the IP/intermediate shaft/VP area. I'm thinking the VP being reinstalled only intensified a sound that was there all along, and me in my diesel newbness probably missed it when testing it out and listening to it before purchase. This engine is my only experience with any kind of diesel wrenching. Where's the best place to buy a full VP rebuild kit(bearings and all) and an intermediate shaft bushing? Thank you, everyone. I've got some more studying to do.
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#12
03-22-2013, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver 1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone 1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy! 1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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