IP fuel shutoff. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

stomis · #1 05-26-2013, 02:23 PM

Since I wont be running a vacuum pump I either need to devise a way to use an electric solenoid or a mechanical wire. The only linkage I see through the back of the pump is shown in the picture so Im assuming this is the fuel kill.

When I go to make this work is level back fuel on and lever forward fuel off? Also Im assuming it needs to stay in said position once the engine starts? Im gonna hit Mcmaster carr's books and try to devise an electric setup to turn the engine fuel on and off with the key.

wildhorsemfg · #2 05-26-2013, 04:03 PM

what are you doing for your brakes ?

Diesel911 · #3 05-26-2013, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomis

Since I wont be running a vacuum pump I either need to devise a way to use an electric solenoid or a mechanical wire. The only linkage I see through the back of the pump is shown in the picture so Im assuming this is the fuel kill.

When I go to make this work is level back fuel on and lever forward fuel off? Also Im assuming it needs to stay in said position once the engine starts? Im gonna hit Mcmaster carr's books and try to devise an electric setup to turn the engine fuel on and off with the key.

You can't hook it directly to the Rack because the rack has to move freely.
You would be better off peeling back the Crimp around the Stock Shutoff Valve and find some place in side to attach a cable.

Some of the other Fuel Injection Pumps like My Vovlo Diesel have a Solenid in the Fuel Inlet that is open when the Key is on and shuts off the Fuel when you turn the Key off.

A simpler way would be to get one of those 12 Electric Vacuum Pumps on eBay that are used for the Cruise Control wired with a Push Button Switch. Press the Button and the Vac Pump turns on a creates Vacuum and Shuts the Engine off.
To make this work you would need to provide a tiny bleed hole some where so when the Engine is off the Vacuum can dissapate so it will allow you to start. Or maybe the Vacuum Pump itself would allow the Vacuum to beed off.

stomis · #4 05-26-2013, 05:28 PM

Hydroboost...

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stomis · #5 05-26-2013, 05:42 PM

I'd rather not run a 12v vacuum pump honestly. Plus I don't have a stock shutoff valve so I'm going to look into an inline solenoid like you said. I guess as long as it is post filter there won't be a huge amount of fuel left.

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stomis · #6 05-26-2013, 05:52 PM

Wouldn't that cause the injectors to air lock though?

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Diesel911 · #7 05-26-2013, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomis

Wouldn't that cause the injectors to air lock though?

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I am not sure which "it" you are speaking of.

If you are speaking of the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid if it is mounted right after the Plastic Primary Filter and before the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump it cannot Air Lock because it is not exposed to the Air.

As soon as the Fuel is plugged of the Engine ought to stop shortly as soon as the Fuel Pressure drops.

You cannot install the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid on the Pressure side of the Fuel Supply/Lift Pump.

As for the not having the Origional Vacuum Shutoff one of our Members who has one with a bad Diaphragm might supply one for the cost of the Shipping to you.

Note: The also have manual shutoff Valves that you could hook a Cable to. But, the valve would need to be mounted on somethig solid.

BillGrissom · #8 05-27-2013, 12:19 AM

I think you will find custom engineering like that to be simple in concept, but usually difficult in execution. I also think you would be best to use the factory vacuum shut-off solenoid on the I.P. I also have considered not using the factory mechanical vacuum pump. I would definitely drop it if the cam lobes that drive it got buggered up and the engine was fine otherwise. You can buy after-market electric vacuum pumps that muscle car owners use when they put in a wild cam that gives little manifold vacuum, but they cost ~$300. A more affordable option is a used brake booster vacuum pump for a VW Jetta/Golf/... Those cars also have a trunk-mounted pump for the door locks, which I tried but the controls are much more complicated, so not easy to switch it on and off.

Diesel911 · #9 05-27-2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

I think you will find custom engineering like that to be simple in concept, but usually difficult in execution. I also think you would be best to use the factory vacuum shut-off solenoid on the I.P. I also have considered not using the factory mechanical vacuum pump. I would definitely drop it if the cam lobes that drive it got buggered up and the engine was fine otherwise. You can buy after-market electric vacuum pumps that muscle car owners use when they put in a wild cam that gives little manifold vacuum, but they cost ~$300. A more affordable option is a used brake booster vacuum pump for a VW Jetta/Golf/... Those cars also have a trunk-mounted pump for the door locks, which I tried but the controls are much more complicated, so not easy to switch it on and off.

In the below thread I hooked up a Volvo/Saab Hella 12 Volt Electric Vacuum Pump.
To summarize what I can remember; I drove around with it and there was no difference in how anything worked.
After Is stopped I touched the Pump and burned Myself. That Pump got really Hot.
Also it was not a complete setup. I had no check Valve or Vacuum Shutoff Switch on the Pump so the Pump ran all of the time.

My thread on an Electric Brake Booster Pump 12 volt Electric Vacuum Pump
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=296397

This is a different type of Electric Vacuum Pump from the one I bought; one of our Members bought one of the below electric Vacuum Pumps on eBay used. They are also used on some Saabs and Volvos and it is not a Cruise Control Vacuum Pump (they have tiny nipples).

jay_bob · #10 05-27-2013, 08:50 AM

Diesel W210s with the OM606 engine have an electrically operated fuel shut down valve. You might be able to locate one in a yard or on eBay.

stomis · #11 05-27-2013, 11:00 AM

Thanks for the schooling on the shutoff not starving the pump 911. I know its not the easiest way to do things reengineering stuff but understand I engineered the entire truck, made a frame from scratch, designed my front suspension, etc etc.

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mach4 · #12 05-27-2013, 12:44 PM

I know you don't want to run a vacuum shutoff, but I continue to believe that that is the most straightforward and trouble-free solution to your problem.

One option is to get something like a Ford electric vacuum pump and just wire it to a momentary switch in the cab. It only runs during the very short shutdown cycle.

If it happens to have a check valve so vacuum remains in the line after shutdown, just take a hot needle and poke a tiny hole in the nylon vacuum line so the vacuum will bleed down within 2 seconds. Then just wrap it with some filter material and put a bit of shrink wrap around it and shrink one end to hold it in place.

On a good day with a half off sale, you could probably source a pump at the junk yard for $5.

I'm running a manual shutdown in my project and I'm quite happy.

Diesel911 · #13 05-27-2013, 04:30 PM

He did say he did not have the Vacuum Shutoff Valve. However, a used one from the Junk Yard would not cost much.
I believe the Vacuum Valve could be converted to Pull Cable if some place inside of the Valve can be found to attach the Cable.

Diesel911 · #14 05-27-2013, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stomis

Thanks for the schooling on the shutoff not starving the pump 911. I know its not the easiest way to do things reengineering stuff but understand I engineered the entire truck, made a frame from scratch, designed my front suspension, etc etc.

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When you solve the Problem please post some pics. The cost of a New Vacuum Shutoff Valve has risen. I suspect there is more than a few People woul would like to have an alternative way to shut the Engine off especially if it is cheaper.

And, there are those that put the Engines in other Vehicles as you are doing that need another method.

The Fuel Cutoff Solenoid is simple. I looked on eBay and they had one for Boats and it also has a Manual Override on it. The Manual Override is something that My Volvo does not have. If the Solenoid Failed I would be unable to run the Engine.

JB3 · #15 05-28-2013, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

When you solve the Problem please post some pics. The cost of a New Vacuum Shutoff Valve has risen. I suspect there is more than a few People woul would like to have an alternative way to shut the Engine off especially if it is cheaper.

And, there are those that put the Engines in other Vehicles as you are doing that need another method.

The Fuel Cutoff Solenoid is simple. I looked on eBay and they had one for Boats and it also has a Manual Override on it. The Manual Override is something that My Volvo does not have. If the Solenoid Failed I would be unable to run the Engine.

Im interested to see what stomis comes up with too. Im near this point in my project as well, and I really like mach4's method as well.

Ive been toying with going with a mercedes ignition including the vac valve and making the shutoff stock mercedes, while adapting the wiring instead to my project vehicle. It just seems like the way they designed it is pretty decent, and if you use the same function in a project vehicle, you have all stock parts to repair it if you need to, nothing custom. For me the MB ignition would have to be dash mounted though.