Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-30-2015, 12:03 AM
PRO VEGGIE CONVERTER
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Santa Maria CA 150mi North of LA
Posts: 680
1981 300D black smoke, no power

This 1981 300D N/A came to me, with lots of issues, but the most predominant is the black smoke on acceration and no power. It feels as though the throttle is only going to 20%. I adjusted valves and verified the throttle linkage goes to full. The crank case breather system in the air filter box was broken, so I replaced the box with a good used one and verified that the breather system was all clear. Not too much blow by. Engine starts and sounds healthy. Thoughts?

__________________
Andrew Villasenor
805-720-5057
1984 300D turbo 5-speed manual(daily driver)
ALL MY DIESELS RUNNING WVO
Everything is for sale for the right amount
Ebay Store
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-30-2015, 02:01 AM
Jesus'd drive a diesel
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chicago,IL
Posts: 230
Timing chain??
__________________
General George - 1967 Land Rover 2a SWB 1983 OM617 Turbo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-30-2015, 07:41 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 2,788
Look for an EGR, block it off (both the exhaust side and the intake side) with steel when you find it (not aluminum cans please).

My first MB was an '85 euro 300TD, NA engine but a five-speed transmission that made up for the lack of turbo. When I bought the car, it had very similar symptoms: black smoke and very little power. I chased that for almost a year: filters, rebuilt injectors, IP timing, new timing chain, multiple valve adjustments. Finally I learned from Dr. Marshall Booth (RIP) that blocking off the EGR would give a slight boost in power, so I did that and immediately it was like I had a new car.

The EGR valve can fail in the open position, and then your car is breathing exhaust fumes 100% of the time, and there is not enough oxygen for complete combustion of the fuel.
__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-31-2015, 04:36 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,924
Carefully check the injection pump timing. Your issue is also quite typical of a seriously retarded injection pump. No power and lots of smoke. Also make certain when testing the injection pump by the drip method that the first cylinders cam lobes are both pointing upward at about a 45 degree angle.

A injection pump installed and timed on the wrong stroke by someone will make a horrible running engine even if it is timed properly. Smoke really bad and no power to speak of. It does happen. Another possibility is you may have a seriously pissing injector or two. Still I would leave that till last to check. I kind of have issues that one pissing injector would reduce power that much as well but for all I know it might. Instead I would expect smoke primarily.

Of course it can be other things but this is where I would look first after making sure the air filter is not really bad. If uncertain on the air filter just running the car for a few minutes without it will do no harm.

Also these are old engines and you may have a really bad stretched out timing chain as well so check that too. It is not hard. Elimination of the egr is easy as well plus desirable anyways even if not faulty.

You are obviously getting lots of fuel but not burning it properly. So obviously it is either a lack of oxygen or fuel being injected at the wrong time. Nice to hear the engine does not have a lot of blow by as well. That is almost always a good sign on these old buggies.

What I and others have mentioned above should get you by this problem. Then when you get it running well give the fuel system a good tune up. It improves a lot of things on these N/A engines. I have an old 77 300d that does well for what it is . Especially once I tuned it up.

Last edited by barry12345; 07-31-2015 at 05:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-31-2015, 07:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,534
According to the lifted obnoxious diesel truck guys, smoke = power. Are they telling a lie?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-01-2015, 12:38 AM
83240D
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
According to the lifted obnoxious diesel truck guys, smoke = power. Are they telling a lie?
At a certain point, additional fuel becomes a waste. If it comes out black, then it was not fully burned, and any potential thermal gains are lost to the atmosphere as soot.
Kind of like drinking a gallon of water, your body will only be able to use so much,then the rest is urinated out.
Some diesel guys think..... why stop at a gallon of water, 10 gallons is better aint it?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-01-2015, 02:00 AM
Jesus'd drive a diesel
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chicago,IL
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
According to the lifted obnoxious diesel truck guys, smoke = power. Are they telling a lie?
In those cases black smoke still means that more fuel is being delivered than burned. When the engine has a huge turbo it means that ridiculously large amounts of fuel are being pumped into cylinders (hence the power) but not all of it gets combusted because there's not enough oxygen. One could put on an even bigger turbo but at some points the pistons are going to melt. It's a wasteful way of showing off in my opinion even though some may see it as pushing the limits.

The case of OP's engine is different though. Still more fuel delivered than burned but the lack of power suggest some sort of malfunction in either timing or air delivery.
__________________
General George - 1967 Land Rover 2a SWB 1983 OM617 Turbo
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-01-2015, 12:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,534
I should have but a at the end of my statement, I know that over fueling is a waste and does nothing on a stock ish motor.

Diesel pickup are semi common around here, there might be one or two that isn't driven by some idiot with a smoke box.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-01-2015, 12:55 PM
Jesus'd drive a diesel
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chicago,IL
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
I should have but a at the end of my statement, I know that over fueling is a waste and does nothing on a stock ish motor.

Diesel pickup are semi common around here, there might be one or two that isn't driven by some idiot with a smoke box.
i did realize that you were being sarcastic but only after i posted my response
__________________
General George - 1967 Land Rover 2a SWB 1983 OM617 Turbo
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2015, 02:01 PM
Zacharias's Avatar
Not so amused
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: West Quebec
Posts: 4,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
According to the lifted obnoxious diesel truck guys, smoke = power. Are they telling a lie?
Don't lie to us. You secretly want to roll coal .
__________________


Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-01-2015, 07:37 PM
Diesel911's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Long Beach,CA
Posts: 51,258
What does the smoke smell like?

Retarded/late timeing on My Volvo diesel did not result in black smoke it was white then as I corrected it gray and then normal.

Unforunately there is more then one thing that can cause black smoke. Be thinking of too much Fuel, not enough Air or poor compression.

Fuel Injection Pumps generally do put out too much Fuel.

It is easly enouh to find ouf if the Air inlet system is blocked.

The Compression issue could be a blown Head Gasket (compression test). The other end is something bad happend to the Cylinders/Pistons/Rings.

Not related to the above is if it has a Turbo Oil could be leaking out of the Exhaust side if the Turbo and if the Turbo is not working that could account for the power loss.

Line up the Timing marks on the Camshaft Gear with the one on the front Bearing Tower and look down at the Crank Damper and see what degrees are the Pointer indicates.
__________________
84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-01-2015, 10:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 7,534
This might have something to do with it :

"" Andrew Villasenor
1984 300D turbo 5-speed manual(daily driver)
ALL MY DIESELS RUNNING WVO """

If the smoking car in question isn't yours, do you have any history of the car?

Black smoke is not enough air / too much fuel for the rpm the motor is at.

Does this engine have a throttle flap in the intake? With the engine off have someone push on the peddle and look in the intake to see if the flap goes full open. ( Don't do this by moving the under hood linkage, you want to see actual operation. )

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page