A NEW 617? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

300 Super D · #1 01-20-2018, 06:03 AM

I'm curious what you guys think a new 617 would be worth to you, realistically? And by a new engine, I mean the long block (no starter, inj/pumps, alt, pulleys, etc..)

New, meaning NEW, not rebuilt, not made from parts, but a new motor in a crate with Mercedes sticker's still on it.

BirthdayBenz · #2 01-20-2018, 06:18 AM

For reference, Greazzer was selling a few short blocks a while back. Price was $725.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/371257-sale-brand-new-engine-blocks-om617-engine.html

300 Super D · #3 01-20-2018, 06:29 AM

Interesting, although a long block is GIANT step. And for another reference, I recently knew of three full engines, crated since new, for $20K each!

A rebuilt long block is around $8000 from Metric.

vstech · #4 01-20-2018, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirthdayBenz

For reference, Greazzer was selling a few short blocks a while back. Price was $725.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/371257-sale-brand-new-engine-blocks-om617-engine.html

I wish mark had Le me know he had these... I might have snatched them all from him...

greazzer · #5 01-20-2018, 10:05 AM

I let the forum know by posting a thread listing them for sale ...

I still have a few but I am thinking I will hang on to them for down the road ...

Diseasel300 · #6 01-20-2018, 10:10 AM

Given the choice between a newly rebuilt long block and an OEM long block sitting in a crate for 20+ years, I'd take the rebuilt long block without batting an eye. The one that's sat for years and years is going to have the typical seal issues and rubber parts failures that everyone is familiar with. Then you have issues with rust.....has it developed any? Lube still good? So many unknowns, and for $20K.......no way. Maybe for $2K.....

greazzer · #7 01-20-2018, 10:13 AM

There are "new" OM617s out there, or I should say NOS at various auctions (whole complete engines ready to go). The last one that I saw was around a year ago and it sold for something slightly north of $1K. Shipping issues and auction rules pretty much make that venture a local event unless you know someone in the vincinity of the auction who can pick it up, pay for it on your behalf, and ship it for you. As for seals and gaskets, pretty sure they are fine. The engine has not went from hot to cold a zillion times, wear and tear, et cet. It is still sitting in its MB crate ready to roar.

leathermang · #8 01-20-2018, 11:13 AM

ONE caveat about REBUILT engines....
In the old days...
when an engine was rebuilt .. all the parts were taken off of it....
and it was ' Dunked ' into a caustic solution...
this cleaned out the WATER PASSAGES.....
If this is not done... if the block is simply redone with parts replaced..

then you have the potential for a cooling problem later on...

If you have not seen the ' Gunk ' which can fall out of the cooling fluid .. typically at the rear lower part of the coolant passages.... and accumulate in a solid mass...not removable by normal flushing... even with acids....... you might be amazed....

The term was ' vatted '.....

OM617YOTA · #9 01-20-2018, 11:44 AM

I agree, I'd take a new rebuilt motor over one that's been sitting in a crate for a couple decades. New rebuilt, $5k at absolute most, but probably not even then. Too many good used examples available for way less.

$20k, absolutely not. Ridiculously, hilariously, no. At that point I'd be switching vehicles.

Maybe I shouldn't have answered, it's no secret that I am not a huge fan of these engines. Not in the target demographic for this thread.

300 Super D · #10 01-20-2018, 04:25 PM

Well the $15-20K engines sold fast, likely to builders that are building $60K+ resto cars. I'm not sure some of you understand what it means to have a new 617 engine, or what it means to collectors.

The idea that a rebuilt one is better than a NEW motor is completely nuts, sorry, you are smoking crack. Never even heard of a rebuilt motor lasting even half as long. Replace the rubber if you really think that's going to be a problem, which it won't be in this case. (ignorance fueled theory)

$2K is also funny as sh**. This motor is 100% free of any corrosion and is perfect, to put it lightly. (Stored at a factory that builds cars!) It's easily worth $7000-9000 given people are paying that for rebuilt engines with some parts that aren't even as good.

I think this group was the wrong one to ask. I may put this engine I know about into a restored car and the value of the car would go up 400% with Merc. collectors and fans of old cars that could be a daily driver for another 200K+ miles.

300 Super D · #11 01-20-2018, 04:42 PM

Where did you see new ones being auctioned off?

OM617YOTA · #12 01-20-2018, 04:43 PM

If you want wide and varied opinions on a wide range of subjects, usually with good reasoning to back them up, this is a good place to ask.

If you just want validation of your own thoughts, the internet may not be the place for you.

Diseasel300 · #13 01-20-2018, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OM617YOTA

If you want wide and varied opinions on a wide range of subjects, usually with good reasoning to back them up, this is a good place to ask.

If you just want validation of your own thoughts, the internet may not be the place for you.

x2

You asked for opinions and you got them, If someone wants to pay that much for an engine, more power to them. The cars that the engine goes to would have a hard time pulling that much complete in concours condition. $60K for a factory-condition 300D or 300SD with a non-VIN-Matched engine is laughable!

greazzer · #14 01-20-2018, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 Super D

Where did you see new ones being auctioned off?

They are all over. Last one was in Texas I think and it was a maritime application engine. It was a "new" engine. I ended up with a bunch of NOS OM617 turbo blocks a year or so ago, different sale altogether. I could have purchased a small U-Haul truck full of brand new/ NOS doors (shells) W123 sedan a year or two ago. MB dealer parts, not aftermarket. I bought a few and sold them. Overall, I don't think the hobby for the W123s is going to ever get to the point where parts command any real value in a collector sense. From my perspective, not worth the risk of carrying inventory plus when you read posts from all the different MB forums, there's no great demand for "collector" parts or ground up restorations. I don't think I have ever seen a ground up restoration of a W123? Most repair posts center on how to "hack" a repair or shortcuts to save money. Heck, folks will have competing posts over how to revitalize a 10.00mm orifice heat shield. So I am guessing a lot of these NOS parts will sit on a shelf until the market shifts to a collector car / real restoration market takes place. Why sell them now for peanuts?

I vacillate between months of screening all possible leads for car parts to not looking at all for months. My interest is waning a little over the years. I use to hit all the yards from here to West as far as Atlanta, South as far as Orlando, and North as far as Virginia. I guess if I had a large warehouse, I would have a way to store and organize. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, I was into Packards. Back in the day, you could even still find NOS Packard straight 8 crate engines so the stuff is out there.

Just gotta look and be lucky and you will find whatever you are looking for. The next trick is simply forking out the cash to buy it. Most folks will balk at paying $20 and shipping for a part which originally cost new $500 or more and ... So, how many folks are really going to pay $1K or even $5K for a crate OM617 turbo engine will all the accessories and tin on it?

leathermang · #15 01-20-2018, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 Super D

.....The idea that a rebuilt one is better than a NEW motor is completely nuts, sorry, you are smoking crack. Never even heard of a rebuilt motor lasting even half as long. Replace the rubber if you really think that's going to be a problem, which it won't be in this case. (ignorance fueled theory)....

Any of the valve springs which have been compressed for 35 years should be replaced..... and I would also replace the valve stem seals.. since the design changed in that time to give them a better ' gas lip' ....Depending on how they were sealed up... there may be some light rust on inside surfaces just from normal barometric changes in the air pressure moving moist air into and out of any open vents....
and you are not referring to a NEW motor.. you are referring to a New Old Stock motor....