1977 280>300D, OM617.912 auto
20W-50, ambient temps about 0-20 *C.



Been a while since I've felt I've had to ask for thoughts on this forum...
Been using the '77 I've had for about a month now as a daily driver. For most of that time, it has had the long wait for oil pressure to build like the oil filter housing is draining out.
I replaced the 2x o-rings on the oil filter lid stem, and it helped a wee bit but didn't help as much as I'd hoped.
She's an old engine but still shouldn't have to fill the filter housing each start (I presume that's the issue).
Oil is literally cheapest I can get my hands on with a Cx rating...it burns a lot as I now do 8.5hr road trips semi-regularly now I've moved house. I realise going to 5w-40 etc will help but it's not the cause of my issue.


So how else is the filter housing draining?



There is no external leak from the lid big o-ring so I doubt air is getting in that way. As an aside on my '78 with turbo conversion I had to put a check valve in my turbo feed line which was tapped off the housing because it was letting air get in backwards via the turbo drain and causing the same delay post-start before pressure came up.
Cheers...

Forgot to mention. Idle oil pressure when at normal temp (85-90) is 1.5bar, same as my '78 (with 10W-40). Goes to 'bout 1-1.2bar when cooling off from 100+*C.

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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

How long is the delay?

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2004 F150 4.6L -My Daily
2007 Volvo XC70 -Wife's Daily
1998 Ford F150 -Rear ended
1989 J-spec 420SEL -passed onto its new keeper
1982 BMW 733i -fixed and traded for the 420SEL
2003 Volvo V70 5 Speed -scrapped
1997 E290 Turbo Diesel Wagon -traded for above
1992 BMW 525i -traded in
1990 Silver 300TE -hated the M103
1985 Grey 380SE Diesel Conversion, 2.47 rear end, ABS -Sold, really should have kept this one
1979 Silver 300D "The Silver Slug" -Sold

Whoops, something else important I forgot. Around 8-12secs.... after the car has been sitting for an hour or so.

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1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

That's a frighteningly long delay. Is there a check or bypass valve or something in the delivery passage from the oil pump that may have failed causing drainback when the engine stops?

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Current stable:
1995 E320 157K (Nancy)
1983 500SL 125K (SLoL)

Gone but not forgotten:
1986 300SDL (RIP)
1991 350SD
1991 560SEL
1990 560SEL
1986 500SEL Euro (Rusted to nothing at 47K!)

Gone and wanting to forget:
1985 524TD 167K (TotalDumpster™) [Definitely NOT a Benz]

Well, as you stated, going to a lighter weight oil should help significantly. My car regularly sees +40C in the summer and I've never used greater than 15W40. Oil that is too heavy can also cause damage.

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Sam

84 300SD 350K+ miles ( Blue Belle )

I don't disagree that it will help, but the issue is separate from the oil type as pressure used to come up normally with 20W-50.

I did a quick test before, and started the engine and took the oil cap off, counting until I saw oil come out of the cam rail squirter, was right on "8-mississippi".

Guess the sooner I get my turbo one going the better...

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

This is from my notes "
On 617.952s you can substitute a 7mmx11mmx2mm in the upper groove on the Oil Filter Stem instead of the 6mmx10mmx2mm. If you do that you have enough O-rings for 24 O-ring changes. (This was suggested by another member and I did it and it works; since I bought the kit I do this on mine.)"

Inside of the Oil Filter Stem somewhere in the last bottom 1/4 of it is a spring loaded valve. I don't know how you get at that valve but one of our Members did and he said he found some of the cotton from the upper portion of the stock Oil Filter stuck in the valve. (Once the Oil goes past that Valve it goes into the Oil Pan.)

While there is only a tiny hole at the top of the stem tube for Oil to run out of if the Valve was open it would allow Air to go through the little hole and allow the Oil to drain out faster.

So there is 4 ways for the Oil to get out of the Oil Filter Housing. 1- draining back through the Oil Pump, 2- draining past worn Bearings, 3- draining past the 2 stem O-rings and the mentioned valve allowing air to get inside the Oil Filter Housing.

The above presumes there is no cracks in the Oil Filter Housing and the Oil Filter Housing Block to Oil Filter Gasket is good.

I don't know how this could possibly happen but if after you shut the Engine off there was a Vacuum inside of that would cause the Oil to drain out of the Husing faster.

The red circle on the diagram is where the valve is inside of that Oil Filter Stem.
When I added a bypass Oil Filter to my Car I removed the Oil Filter Stem so I could drill out the Oil Filter Cap for a fitting. That stem is just pressed into the Cap. I tapped the jaws of a Vice Grips and then careful not to use more tension on the jaws then was need to grip the tube I pulled on the tube while I turned the tube back and forth.

Once the tube is out if you dry up the oil on it you can stick the bottom of the tube under water and by mouth blow into the tube. If you see a lot of bubbles come out of the tube you know something is keeping the valve open or perhaps there is an issue with the valve spring.

After the Tube was loose I used an air gun and compressed air and blew down through the tube and past the valve. That worked because my Air Gun had a tapered rubber section attached to the air gun nozzle. If I remember correctly the valve displacing and closing made sort of a buzzing sound.

Attached Thumbnails

 

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

There is a bypass valve inside of the bottom of the Oil Filter Housing. I don't know if that could cause the issue you are speaking of or not.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Thanks 911, that's some really good info there. I had no idea there was a check valve in the stem itself, I assumed it was in the lower housing somewhere.
I actually swapped filter lids/stems from one of my .952 engines stored in the garage hoping it would have better looking o-rings, but that didn't help much so I ended up buying new ones regardless. So not sure of the probability that the check valves in both original and current stems being both faulty, but I can always give a quick blast with air just to make sure. I'm heading home late tomorrow so might do a filter change while I have the lid off.

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD

Subscribed .

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-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

Just FWIW a wee update, I changed the oil filter and top o-ring. I'm not really bothering with oil changes as I've added over a sump full of oil to it since I've been using it (at least 8x 670km/416 mile trips)..
Anyway the issue has improved slightly to the point I can't be bothered chasing it any more, the car has other issues to attend to.

(Also it was 20W-40 oil rather than 50...but only the 20 part counts when cold of course)

__________________
1978 300D, 373,000km 617.912, 711.113 5 speed, 7.5mm superpump, HX30W turbo...many, many years in the making....
1977 280> 300D - 500,000km+ (to be sold...)
1984 240TD>300TD 121,000 miles, *gone*
1977 250 parts car
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D *gone*
1975 FJ45>HJ45
1981 200>240D (to be sold...)
1999 Hyundai Lantra 1.6 *gone*
1980s Lansing Bagnall FOER 5.2 Forklift (the Mk2 engine hoist)
2001 Holden Rodeo 4JB1T 2WD