Is there a better way to change oil? I hate those plastic oil pans... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

DieselHead · #1 12-30-2002, 11:17 PM

Hi,
Is there any good device available to change oil from the dipstick tube instead of from the oil pan drain? It's awfully cold (well, relatively) in NY now and I'd like to be able to change my oil without jacking up the front and bothering with a plastic oil pan. Also, doing it that way always manages to make a mess. Is there some good vacuum device that can suck or pump the oil out of the dipstick tube? I'm willing to pay a lot. Thanks.

Alex

JimSmith · #2 12-31-2002, 12:28 AM

Dieselhead,

I have been using a vacuum device to suck oil out the dipstick tube for close to ten years now. I started with something called a "Topsider" I bought from Griot's Garage (mail order place) and it worked until about a year ago. It was a hand pump operated item that you pumped all the air out of, then openned a clamp on the tube going to the oil sump through the dipstick, and it sucked the oil out. After many years of great service I read on the site about the benefits of sucking it out really hot and quickly. After about a year of hot oil changes on three cars it collapsed one day into what looked like an oversized crushed blue beer can.

Then I bought a Sureflo Water Wolf (also via mail order) that cost a lot more and had an electrically driven pump. My first try with this was a disaster (really only when I went to empty the container, when I got oil all over the recycling station), but I got the hang of it. In cold weather though this thing self destructs the impeller. I have gone through two impellers now, one each Winter, and when they break and stop working it is very inconvenient, like half way into the job where you have to finish or not drive the car which also brings on a certain near panic situation. So much so that I went out and bought another hand pumping device last weekend. They are available in the original Topsider (a modified old style hemispherical metal gas can) configuration or other versions. I bought the tall thin unit made of what appeared to be stout, translucent plastic. The issue for me with the hand operated units is they have about 5 quarts of oil storage, which is not enough, so you have to empty them half way through the job, and there are no empty gallon containers yet. But they are reliable. The electric unit had a 5 gallon capacity though, and it would pump the stuff back into the gallon Delvac 1 containers and make disposal very clean and simple.

I have heard a few comments about this method and how it could not get the last drop of oil with the really bad sludge in it out like draining from the oil pan. I just did my E300 Turbodiesel last weekend and the oil stays clear in that car, so you can't see it on the dipstick, for about 50 miles. Then it slowly gets discolored. By the time I drove several hundred miles it was the usual black stuff. And this weekend I did my Father-in-law's 1980 240D. I put regular Delvac in it this summer and he drove it about 2500 miles. But he uses it in the Winter now and so we put synthetic Rotella 5W-40 in it. It also stayed clear for the 10 mile test drive. So I do not agree there is any significant sludge or left over old oil that cannot be sucked out the dipstick. I think these cars were intended to be serviced this way and the engineers figured this issue out. It works. Good Luck and I hope this helps, Jim

P.S.: Thanks for the stickers, they arrived while I was away on a business trip. They look great.

#3 12-31-2002, 09:03 AM

I use a metal drain pan that is only a few inches tall. This does away with the need to jack up the car.

I just drive in with hot engine, put the pan underneath, pull the plug, loosen the oil filter cover enough to vent and go in the house. If it's good weather, I wait a few minutes for the oil to drain out of the filter cannister and pull the old filter.

The next morning I pull the pan out of the way, put in the plug, pull out the filter (if I left it in overnight,) wipe out the cannister, pour some oil in the cannister, then put the oil filter in place and tighten it down. Then fill the crankcase with oil.

To me, the oil filter is more of a hassle than removing and replacing the drain plug. You still have to hassle with the oil filter regardless of the "drain" method.

If you get a pan that will go underneath without jacking up the car, that alone will probably save more hassle than the rest of the operation. It seems to me that if you don't have to jack up the car, removing and replacing the drain plug would be much less hassle than using the topsider gizmo, and you won't be out the money for the gizmo. Also you won't have to stay out in the cold operating the gizmo, you can just pull the plug and let gravity take the place of the gizmo effort while you're inside having something hot to drink.

You will have many people give you all sorts of justifications for using the sucking device. There will even be some that will go so far as to try to tell you that it gets out MORE oil.

Best of luck,

airfoill · #4 12-31-2002, 09:28 AM

Alex,

I agree with Larry on this. In fact in all my cars, I don't have to jack any of them up to change oil. The only thing that I have to do extra on the 300SDL and the 300D 2.5 (different from the 240D) is remove the noise encapsulation shield. There are four screws that hold these shields. Once you do that, then you can see the drain plug and proceed just like in the 240D. I use low profile plastic drain pan that is low enough to go underneiith the engine. I change the oil after running the engine at normal operating temperature.

I say let gravity work for you instead of buying an expensive piece of equipment. Besides, I really don't think that Topsider removes all the oil.......so save your $$$ and drain it using the drain plug.

Herb
'82 240D
'87 300SDL
'92 300D 2.5 Turbo

#5 12-31-2002, 09:58 AM

I had a Topsider, used it for one oil change and sold it. I just don't mind getting under the car and draining it via the drain plug. I did not attempt this experiment myself, but others have told me that they removed their drain plug after using the Topsider and did not get one drop of oil to come out, so the Topsider did get it all. I have been using a stopcock type of a drain plug on my 240D for over ten years I bet and it really makes things a lot easier than having to rmove the drain plug. Here's the info on it:

> Cost of stopcock is about $15 or so. Seems well made and safe - it is
> almost impossible for an accidental opening of the device.
>
> Manufactured by: Fumoto Engineering of America
> 12328 Northup Way
> Bellevue, WA 98005
> Phone: 425-869-7771
> http://www.fumotovalve.com/

> Len

P.E.Haiges · #6 12-31-2002, 09:58 AM

For my '80 300SD I use a 2 gallon plastic oil bottle with a hole cut in one side of it. In the evening I put it under the drain plug hole, remove the drain plug and loosen the oil filter cap and lift it slightly. Then I come back in the morning when everything is cool and replace the drain plug, replace the filter, tighten the oil commection to the oil cooler and fill the engine with oil. It is not necessary to jack up the car.

OH, I also drain the oil from the oil cooler into another small container by loosening (not removing) the oil line connection to the cooler.

Then I pour the oil thru the hole in the end of the 2 gallon bottle into suitable containers.

P E H

JimSmith · #7 12-31-2002, 12:52 PM

Dieselhead,

That gives you both sides of the discussion, pretty thoroughly, and now it is up to you. One of the great features of this forum is the fact that you will always get a well rounded presentation of the issues, concerns and solutions people have worked out. Good luck, Jim

rdanz · #8 12-31-2002, 01:12 PM

I use the Topsider with the oil warm and have no trouble.

PaulH · #9 01-01-2003, 01:45 PM

Another opinion is - - - Go to a boat store and get an oil changer.It's an electic pump on top of a 14 quart pail with a cover. With the oil hot, stick the small hose down the dip stick tube and suck out the old oil.Pour in the new oil(after changing the Filter). Then stick the hose into each used oil container,reverse the switch and pump the used oil into the containers, put the caps on and take the used oil to a recycling center. I learned to park my SDL on a slight slope with the front of the car lower so the oil runs to the front of the engine where the dip stick tube is. My SDL oil looks clean for about 50 miles. I use Rotella T and change every 3000 miles. I'm too cheap to buy syn oil.

(I also use this method on my diesel boat motors)

PaulH · #10 01-01-2003, 02:01 PM

I would add to the above that changing oil at 3000 miles with dino oil is better than changing oil at 5000 - 6000 miles with syn. oil. It's the soot, etc. that wears the engine and gets stuck in the piston rings. I believe that it is Larry who says "Change it hot and change it often." (Yes, if I lived in Alaska, I would have to use syn. oil.) Have a nice day.

asti84 · #11 01-01-2003, 02:17 PM

There is a similar contraption to sokoloff's "stopcock" sold in Kragen's/Pepboys...it's made by Framm..very similar principle but intead of the toggle switch they have a hose you can attach to the drain plug which opens the plug and directs the flow ...

1984 300DT- 266k
Proverbs 3:5-6

DieselHead · #12 01-01-2003, 06:08 PM

Thanks everyone for all the great suggestions. Being anally thorough, I will try all of them.

Alex

DieselHead · #13 01-01-2003, 07:09 PM

How is the LiquiVac? The Eastwood Company has one for $45. Griot's Garage has a vacuum extraction oil collector for $70. I can't seem to find the topsider though. Does anyone know where I can buy one of these online? I like how the oil container is metal. Thanks.

Alex

stephenson · #14 01-01-2003, 07:44 PM

Couple of observations:

1. Topsider works quite well as long as you don't let the oil cool down too much (did this and it is really a pain as you can't start engine up to reheat it and you can't drain it via the Topsider at anything other than a glacial rate ... could pull pan plug, though). Sounds like the key is to do it a "just the right temperature."

2. Beware of overarching statements of fact, like, "I would add to the above that changing oil at 3000 miles with dino oil is better than changing oil at 5000 - 6000 miles with syn. oil. It's the soot, etc. that wears the engine and gets stuck in the piston rings." ... while a great opinion, I don't think it is quite factual. It is a controversial topic so do your reading and research and make up your own mind. Peace.

PaulH · #15 01-01-2003, 09:25 PM

I'll definitely restate that it is better to change oil in a diesel car every 3000 miles than 5000-6000 miles, no matter what kind of oil. This "opinion" is based on "facts" that I received while working for commercial diesel engine manufacturers(2) over a period of 29 years. Of course,with 30+ quarts in a commerical truck engine and larger filters,they can go longer between oil changes. An oil must lube, clean, and cool the engine. Anyway, good luck