why doesn't everyone drive diesels? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

jivadent · #1 02-23-2003, 12:43 AM

I mean, for the same size car, you get better gas mileage with a diesel. You get more power out of a gallon of diesel. Diesel is less refined, so in general it's cheaper. Why is the car industry dominated by gasoline?

The only thing I can think of is the slow start off the line and the loudness. Speaking of which, why are diesels so loud?

#2 02-23-2003, 01:55 AM

Diesels are very popular in Europe and all over the world in fact. The reason why they aren't in the US is because of the EPA and what GM did to the reputation of diesels. It looks like the EPA is coming around and not looking down on diesels as much, and more people are realizing that diesels aren't really all that bad.

Jassper · #3 02-23-2003, 02:17 AM

I think the reasons are that although you get a higher milage people prefer petrol because : 1. Petrol has been the mostly used fuel in passenger cars for decades. 2. The notion is only commercial vehicles use diesel 3. A new diesel car costs more than petrol counterpart. 4. A worn-out diesel is a pain to start while a worn-out petrol engine can still be started relatively easily. 5. New European petrol vehicles are very fuel efficient, taken in account the small difference in price between petrol and diesel and the rel. big gap in new diesel<>petrol car prices it can easily be counted that the difference in fuel prices will pay off after years and some people don't plan to own the car for many years. 6. There definitely is a difference in acceleration for example, even with the newest CDI engine one can feel it is more sluggish than a petrol engine. Etc etc.

rickg · #4 02-23-2003, 04:04 AM

My brother thinks I'm totally nuts for driving a car with a diesel engine in it. He thinks noisey, stinky, shakey diesel engines belong in trucks and tractors, not a car! I made the mistake of teasing him about dropping a diesel into his Subaru Outback and making it a real dependable car (which it already is, was just ribbing him), and boy did that open the flood gates!

So, I guess there are a lot of people out there like him. They just plain don't get the point. I don't necessarily think they are way wrong, they just don't like diesel engines. Period.

mechmagcn · #5 02-23-2003, 10:34 AM

When people think that diesels are noisy,stinky & they wouldn't have one. OH WELL!!! Their loss is our gain. More power to the elite few that are smart enough to drive the most eonomical and long lived vehicle there is.

Long live the diesel and those who choose to drive them!
Jeff

Stevo · #6 02-23-2003, 11:22 AM

I think part of the negative feeling toward diesel cars is due to the VERY BAD engines GM produced, when in the late 70s? They, more or less slapped high compression heads on a gasser and called it a diesel engine. My brother had a diesel Olds, what a disaster.

#7 02-23-2003, 11:55 AM

1. Becuase the fuel cost here is virtually the same as gasoline, Unlike in europe where diesel is significantly cheaper.
2. They may be a little cheaper to maintain than gassers, but when talking used MBZ, its a toss up.
3. A gas engine will last just as long as a diesel engine.
4. The side effects - fuel quality issues, harder to start, and of course, the slowness. I realize the new ones are quick, but those are out of my budget.
5. While the new ones are quick, they are so complicated that the only advantage over a gas powered car is the fuel effeciency.

I owned a diesel and the engine blew up at 227k. That explains my somewhat biased opinions towards them, but I do still love the smell of diesel exhaust. And with fuel costs on the rise, I may have to reconsider.

Mike

Peyton300TD · #8 02-23-2003, 12:05 PM

when i was in CJ's neighborhood i stopped at a gas station to fill up. this new cadillac pulled up next to me and started filling up. the man says "that's a beautiful car. absolutely stunning for its age." i thanked him and then he said "does it always make that noise?" i laughed and told him it was a diesel. he says "is it noisy from inside?" and i said "not really, you can hear it though and i like the noise." he asked if he could drive it and i said "um.... i guess" so we drove it around the block and he said the noise would drive him crazy. lol!

anyways... maybe the noise has something to do with it. my mom's still proud that i won the puzzler contest in 6th grade for the question "what type of engine purr's like a cat?" i was the first and only one to answer correctly. i only knew because my mom has only had diesel mercedes!

eric

GregS · #9 02-23-2003, 12:07 PM

I think there are a couple factors. The first is the fear of the unknown, which is a little strange because 99% of the people driving cars know nothing about the mechanics of a car, so it really should be irrelavant whether they drive a gas or diesel powered car. Additionally, there is the stigma, as already mentioned, that diesels are garbage because GM produced some really awful cars back in the '80s.

Then there is the ego factor. Many, many Americans make a car an extention of their ego, which means they don't feel "man enough" or "cool enough" unless they can spin the tires in their car, or drive something bigger than the guy driving next to them. Just think about the cubic inch wars back in the '60s and '70s, or the fact that every soccer mom in the country now has to drive a huge SUV with a gas-sucking v8 in it. Its all ego. And since a diesel powered car or truck is slower, it just isn't acceptable to Americans - who, buy the way, can buy their gas far cheaper than people in just about any other developed country in the world, so why would they bother with diesel?

GregS
'84 300D, 173k
'90300CE (but I wish it were a 300CD!)

silverfishk8 · #10 02-23-2003, 02:13 PM

Now dont get me wrong, I love diesels. But to be honest I am glad not everyone drives them in the US. At the monent I live in Granada, Spain and about 60% of the cars are diesels. And the air quality is absolutely terrible. And most of the diesels here are newer. So emmissions technology has some way to go before diesels are as common as gasoline engines.

190D22 · #11 02-23-2003, 02:39 PM

The noise does not bother me at all. Actually I love listening to it. A lot of times I turn the music off, roll the windows down, and listen to the engine. The only thing I dislike is the speed of it. But it is not a rabbit diesel. I think diesel is the future of cars now. They are upping the performance of them while not sacrificing in mileage. The CDi's are faster than ours while getting significanly better mileage than ours as well!! The C30 CDi AMG is the perfect example of this.

Though I think I'd prefer a 190E 2.6 over the 2.2 diesel. I'd jump all over a 2.5T though!!

#12 02-23-2003, 03:22 PM

To me, diesels just don't have much of a sporty nature. You'll never make a diesel howl like a BMW 2.5 Six passing 6,000 rpms, or have that on-cam surge of high-rpm power that you get in a highly tuned Japanese car with a DOHC four (Acura Integra, Civic Si, etc).

Diesels may dominate every other type of vehicle market, but I think that cars with a sporting nature will always run on petroleum, as long as we have fossil fuel around.

OTOH, trucks and SUVs are perfect candidates for diesel power. Why we don't have more diesel SUVs is beyond me.

-Sam

Holson Adi · #13 02-23-2003, 03:35 PM

I'm sure the main reason is that price of diesel fuel here is not that much cheaper than gasoline.

and also... I agree that a lot of people still like that high strung sound of a high revving gas engine (Ferrari for example).
I must say that these cars should stay the way they are :p I'd hate to see a Ferrari with a diesel engine hehehe..

However I really think that SUV's are the best candidate for diesel engines. Mid-size passenger cars as well...

I think cabs should be diesels

The Warden · #14 02-23-2003, 03:52 PM

My mom currently has a '94 Pontiac Grand Prix, and I'm slowly talking her into replacing it with a Jetta TDi (she's already decided that she wants a Jetta). At first, she was adamantly against it, but I think I'm starting to change her mind. At first, her response was a simple "I don't wanna diesel", but the only rational explanation I got out of her was that diesel stations are few and far between, and I'm beginning to show her that that's not truly the case. I think the 50mpg figure also scored points with her, along witht he fact that a 5sp TDi can outrun her Pontiac (she wants a slushbox, though, and I haven't been able ot test-drive one of those yet).

Slowly grinding away...

FWIW, I think that most people still see diesels as overpolluting scrap heaps, courtesy of the 350 diesel

and people wonder why I refuse to own another GM product (except that '59 Caddy

)

BTW, in the 5 years that I've been driving, I've owned 2 gassers and 4 diesels (including the two that I still have). I got 25K miles out of the diesel Scout before I lost a piston, and that's 15K more miles than I got out of the longest-lived gasser that I've owned. IMHO diesels are much simpler in comcept, easier to work on, built more ruggedly, and if treated right, will last far longer than any gasser could. I have no intention of going back. I will admit, though, that when I bought my first diesel, that I wasn't new to 'em; been working on marine -71 series diesels since I was 15 or so

#15 02-23-2003, 04:14 PM

Why do you think that a diesel engine will last longer? I am not an engineer, but I see no reason as to why the diesel engine will last longer than a gas engine. Diesels have a reputation for running up high mileages, but that is usually because they are purachased by those who travel a lot of miles, and therefore want low fuel consumption.

A diesel engine IS built more ruggedly, but because the compression ratio is more than twice that of a gasoline engine, I would think that the durability of both designs would be about equal.

I see posts on this board about 240 and 300 (617) engines having low compression and needing rebuilding all the time. When you have 70 or so HP pushing 3500lbs of auto around with 21:1 compression ration, the engine is going to be very stressed, no?

I would pick an m117 (450,560) gas(hog) against any diesel of the same era in a longevity comparison.

Mike