Idk. I just walk in the store and get a new one. Rare, but it can happen.

They said they wouldnt want to sell bad products with a warranty. Costs them money. Made sense to me. I assume the rubber quality has improved to deem them not necessary. Just redundant. Some companies may include them for peace of mind. Maybe. Or all applications are different.

Or maybe they never needed them in the first place, and learned that after decades.

For the same reason i dont want to do a job twice, neither do they.

They are quality rebuilds. Galvanized like boshe. Not zinc.

I think I trust the guys that do it for a living.. Rebuilding calipers that is.

I get my electronics done locally. Parts store ones are rarely fully rebuilt.

Brake calipers, i look at the coating to judge quality.

Don't know what those mechanics are talking about, but not likely those shown in Pelican pic below. We can do whatever we wish with our cars and money. But what is the point of saving just a few dollars to do something different from the original design? Those round shields stop heat as well as dirt and salt from destroying the seals.

I have Pagid pads with integral metal noise reduction shims on my W210. But, I have never seen Pagid pads advertised with an integral heat shield. Do you have a model number and link? I have seen aftermarket heat shields that the racing guys use. Usually low conductivity titanium or S/S and about $100-$180 a set on top of racing pad cost. On a 300D

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Hes actually correct, if im understanding correctly. The little sticky pad that goes on the back of the pad.

And the pad material is different. Wont eat the rubber anymore.

Its kinda like series glowplugs. Original design. Super outdated and should be replaced.

Or asbestus. Lol. Ok maybe a little extreme.

Source: ASE certified for brakes (2003?). It was that way then though.

Graham,re: " Do you have a model number and link? I have seen aftermarket heat shields that the racing guys use. Usually low conductivity titanium or S/S and about $100-$180 a set on top of racing pad cost. On a 300D"

Consider that the pads may have been upgraded over the years. Also materials. My hypothesis is that MBZ labeled the original round metal shields as 'heat shields' exclusively although they probably had dual purposes.. i.e. vibration control. If they labeled them vibration/squeal control and folks' brakes squealed, then there would be complaints etc. As labeled heat shields, who can prove any outcomes?

Anyway, my 300D is non-turbo and does great with naturally controlling speed once the acceleration pedal is let off. I hardly use brakes in City driving. Heavy highway driving at excessive speeds might produce alot of heat with a heavy foot on brakes...
Point is that my anecdote is a general information one and not an absolute rule setter. ergo "your mileage may vary".

Pagid T4113NAU WVA 20341


The back of the pads are coated with some rubber type coating (no need for brake pad paste) and the metal shields are also seemingly coated if memory serves me right...the pads are not tapered on the sides as the similar Pagid T4113 are. see this ebay listing as reference..

Mercedes Front Pagid Brake Pads New 014209920 | eBay

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PAGID T4113-NAU
Cross Interchange Parts
Factory Number
PAGID T4113NAU
MERCED... 0004205920
MERCED... 0004206020
MERCED... 0004209420
MERCED... 0004209520
MERCED... 0014200520
MERCED... 0014207520
View all replacement parts for free >>
Application & Descripition

MERCEDES-BENZ

Descripition:

Thickness [mm]: 17,5

Width [mm]: 89,8

Height [mm]: 73,8

Wear Warning Contact:

Brake System: Teves

WVA Number: 20341

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

MB labelled them heat shields, because that is their main purpose. They also help keep dirt and other stuff away from the seals which are a critical part of the braking system.

Those heat shields have nothing to do with the noise or vibration. There is no contact with pistons or brake pad backing. The pistons move inside the heat shield annulus without any contact.

You may be mixing shims with heat shields. Some pads come with shims and some without. You can buy them either way. The ones with integral shims have a thin metal plate (the shim) behind the heavier pad backing plate and there is a compound of some type between the backing plate and the shim. When installing, it is still a good idea to use anti-squeal paste between the piston and the shim and on the pad support ears.

If you didn't install the heat shields, you should be OK for a while. But for anyone else getting rebuilt calipers or doing job themselves, I would not suggest that you omit the heat shields. This is what you get when you buy a rebuild kit (heat shields are the metal parts between the seals and o-rings):

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

For sure... the harder the brake friction pads have gotten over the years.. the more important this is...

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=anti+squeal+compound

__________________
1980 240d ,

chain elongation, cam marks reference:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=10414

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/305365-9-degrees-chain-stretch.html

evap fin cleaning:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=156207&highlight=evaporator

A/C thread

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/297462-c-recommendations-mb-vehicles.html

Hi Graham, on technical merits you are correct. I also try to make sure my MBZ cars get proper, by the book, service and parts etc..mechanics all seem to have their own opinions. (I am not a mechanic nor am I an authority on car mechanics).

However, this subject has piqued my interest.

I'd like to advance an 'academic' inquiry of sorts.

What gets hot with regards to affecting the caliper cylinder/boot and brake fluid?
The pads, I suppose and perhaps less directly the rotors.

The 'MBZ OEM' heat shields are round metal rings that have a deeper set inner ring which is pressed into the bore of the caliper cylinder.

So a part of the shield does connect with the cylinder (piston) , albeit the bore.

The outer metal ring has one half approx. attached to the inner 'mounting' base ring and the other portion is detached, kind of like a non helical spring.

The perimeter of this outer ring lip does cover the perimeter of the cylinder protective boot. This easily protects the rubber seal from debris etc.


The brake pad backing sets ontop of the metal outer ring of the shield.

Does the slight opening afforded by the detached portion of the outer ring create a small window of air venting for the cylinder bore behind the pad backing?

This elementary narrative is meant to try to understand the physics of how this heat shield does its job.

You see, as you mentioned, one can buy heat shields that basically look and can function like shims.
The PAGID metallic pads I bought had full metal (thin rubber-like paint coated) plates ontop of the pad (rubber like coated) backing. They mimic the entire pad backing form and shape.
So this extra line of 'metal' sits in exactly the same position as the heat shield, albeit if this pad were installed ontop of a round heat shield, then we are talking about two metal layers behind the pad backing. But for this academic inquiry lets just suppose regular pads are used without the 'shims'.

This link illustrates a heat shield that looks like what my Pagid pads come with although they are not titanium for Pagid pads.
https://hardbrakes.com/

My unknown is: if this design of the above referenced heat shield can supposedly work for a caliper that does not have the MBZ type ring heat shield, then why not the metal 'shim' of a Pagid pad?

Mind you there is a materials difference.
titanium is poor for thermal conductivity, about 50% less than metal or tin.

In other words a poor thermo conductivity keeps heat 'static' from transferring sort of.

These titanium shields are marketed for track racers. High speeds.
Or is this snake oil marketing?

In any event, I must also share an anecdote which has no absolute value or causal significance.
The replaced calipers of my 300D were rebuilt ATE calipers with oem round heat shields. Brake fluid replaced every 2 yrs. with ATE DOT 4. No excessive high speed driving and light use of brakes customarily. Wheels and calipers hose washed fairly regularly to wash off dust etc. Rotors are within spec, so not thin. They lasted 7 years and 20K miles.
The in-board cylinders were slow or sticking and one had an onset of minor leak. (brake pads 50% more worn on in-board) Otherwise the seals looked clean and nice and the calipers were not oxidized and a mess etc. No salt roads or snow in my City. Car does not travel to those areas. Just home City. So my anecdote minimally shows that in my particular case, calipers with proper heat shields seem to not have possibly benefited from the shields protections or at least their untimely demise was possibly not relative to heat shields or lack of. There are so many variables that I do not suggest that the heat shields are worthless or should be debunked as a general rule of thumb or otherwise. Don't get me wrong.

I still would like to understand how they work (the physics) and to what extent they really act as heat shields. They are metal and not titanium, right?

So anybody that can share insight, please do so !

Interesting !

Thanks.

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

You have such wonderful alliteration and vocabulary/grammar.

Im sure they help. But are they necessary? Probably depends what you are driving and how you drive it.

For my 220d with 65 hp, totally unnecessary. Sooooo slow. I barely touch the brakes.

LOL, just the inner geek.

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

No way. Not geeky. That is great writing.

First - My only "qualifications" are that I have owned two old Benzes with this type of brake for 25+ years and been through several brake repairs. I also have a background in heat transfer, but have no knowledge of the thinking behind the design of calipers by ATE/TEVES or Bendix engineers. So anything I say is just academic and should be treated as such

The source of heat, is the friction between the pads and the rotors. The rotors being metal and spinning would transfer a good part of the heat away. The pads are less conductive, but some heat will transfer through the pads to their backing plates. Additional heat will transfer from hot rotors to caliper by radiation.

Only the crescent shaped raised section of the piston makes contact with the pad backing (or shim if there is one).

The FSM specifies that this raised section must be 0.1mm above the heat shield. This in effect provides a 0.1mm air gap between the pad backing plate and the heat shield. Such an air gap, having poor conductivity, would reduce the amount of heat reaching the rubber dust cap (outer seal). Not all heat is transferred by conduction. Some would be by radiation. The heat shield 'may' perhaps absorb less radiation that the black rubber dust cap.

Theory aside, and this might sound like a broken record, but I see no reason to NOT install the heat shields. Or to buy rebuilts from sources that omit the shields. ATE and Bendix design engineers thought they were needed. Who are we to question their thinking just to save, at most, a few bucks?

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Because my ate rebuilds came without them

Probably because they discovered its a redundant design.

Would you run series style glow plugs? If you had a car that came with them originally?

Who was it that "discovered" design was redundant? You can still buy ATE caliper as well as calipers rebuilt by ATE. And it appears from their current catalog they still have the heat shields! I imagine it was someone like Cardone who decided they were redundant?
Heck even our local C$60 rebuilts have them installed.

My car never had series glow plugs, but for cars that didn't they would be an improvement. How is leaving off a brake part an improvement? Poor analogy, I am afraid

From current ATE catalog:


Why not email ATE directly and ask them? Better than conjecture that might suggest others buy the wrong thing.
This is their contact email: ate.hotline@continental-corporation.com

__________________
Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I installed new rear discs and new pagid pads on my W210 - they squealed like a pig, as I could not find a way to cook the pads by brake pedal alone (hard stop) as the front ones were old I needed to improvise.

I used a slick finished parking area that I know of and took with me a 5 gallon container of water and spilled some, I then did some hoodlum stuff by trying to spin out the car while the ESP was trying to correct the tail angle. I eventually started to smell the brakes at the rear wheels - so I immediately proceeded off slowly to cool the brakes evenly.

the brakes never squealed again.

the pads and discs need time to burnish and marry each other so they provide perfect working companionship.

--- my 2 cents here only.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)

I dont remember seeing these shields in the rear calipers of my W210 or W124, they are pretty much the same design as the older cars. two opposing piston fixed calipers.

__________________
2012 BMW X5 (Beef + Granite suspension model)

1995 E300D - The original humming machine (consumed by Flood 2017)
2000 E320 - The evolution (consumed by flood 2017)