I thought a manual would be of great help in maintaining my car and the Chilton’s just was not in-depth enough. So I bought the factory services manual on disk what a chump I was, I paid a hundred dollars for something worth less than an AOL disk. MBZ owes a refund to every one who bought these pieces of crap and a written apology. They should take a lesson from Saturn for $90 I got three large bound manuals that are so in-depth it’s got 5 pages on the proper use of RTV as well as a section on every system in the car.
My 2 cents Dave

A factory service manual is written for tech's.
It is assumed tech's know about RTV usage, how to take things apart etc.
Thats why a factory manual gets right to the meat and potatoes.

__________________

79 240D my current toy
42 years a Diesel addict

240D sold
250SE sold
220D sold
280C sold
280S sold
300D (2) sold
300CD sold
300DT sold
300SD sold
380SL sold

Mattdave - you're right on both scores - the factory manuals are disappointing, yet still necessary. The actual information is very good, although as has been stated it assumes a level of familiarity that I don't always have. However, the scans included on the CD are of poor quality, often rendering the photographs useless. Still, when the alternative is Chilton's, we DIYs have no choice (unless you've been blessed with the now out of print hardcopy of the manuals)

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Tjohn

82 300 SD
77 450 SL (gone)

The turbo 5 cyl print copy suffers from the same bad ( too dark ) photos and very poor identification of the parts shown...... and the translation from German leaves a lot to be figured out also...

The 615,616 and non turbo 617 is a much better manual in all those aspects....

All the manuals prior to about 1990 (I'm guessing at the date) were produced using conventional type setting and film process that was available. When the need for CD's became prevelent, MB didn't take the time or expense to convert the traditional manuals to an electronic form. This would have involved re-typesetting the entire book and scanning all the old photos. Quite an undertaking. Hence you have a CD for your 1980's car that was copied rather simply (and poorly).

I'm going to guess that electronic publishing of the manuals started around 1990 or 1991. Manuals for cars of this vintage probably have a much better looking images and diagrams on the CD. This date is roughly based on the fact that the Apple MAC's were really starting to come on board for desktop publishing. Sure its possible that MB could have been using something like the old Ventura Publisher. But that system didn't handle images very well.

MB probably should have made the older manuals still available in traditional book format. But alas some of you would then complain it took up too much room and wanted it on CD.

__________________
84 300DT Puke Yellow. Totalled after 438,000
84 300DT Orient Red. 169,000 (actual mileage may vary)
2002 Explorer EB (wife's)

This is very true, it would be a lot of work.
However, for 100 bucks for a 25cent CD, you would think MB could have paid someone to do this. Especially when the work is done, for 5 minutes with a computer, and another 25 cent CD, they could make another copy to sell for $100.
And so on.
Yamaha also suffers from pathetic versions of older manuals.
When you buy a Mercedes, you expect to pay extra for the extra quality you get. The same should apply for the CDs.

__________________
1991 GMC Sonoma Ext Cab w/Isuzu diesel (converted March Mar 2003) - sold
1994 S10 Ext Cab w/Isuzu diesel (converted Mar 2008)
1998 Toyota Sienna XLE
B6100HST Kubota CUT DIESEL

1994 S10 with Isuzu diesel and 5spd
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...S15/SigPic.jpg

I have CD manuals for both my 126 cars and my 202 car. I think they are a god-send. Coupling them with the great folks on this list have saved my thousands.

Thanks!

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Thank You!
Fred
2009 ML350
2004 SL600
2004 SL500
1996 SL600
2002 SLK32
2005 CLK320 cabrio
2003 ML350
1997 C280 Sport

I think the CD manuals are great. But, they could have more of a troubleshooting matrix like many other manuals do. Otherwise, they are very descriptive in how they take you step-by-step in the repair of something.

I paid $10 for a bootleg copy of the CD manual from someone off ebay and I thought at first that it lost something in the copying process. But I later heard from others that had originals that had the same quality issues that I had. Its OK for the $10 I paid but I would rather have a hard copy. I like flipping through paper pages and just seeing what catches my attention. I can't do that with the CD. I also like the portability of a book manual. I don't have a laptop computer nor do I want one if I have a perfectly good PC. The problem is I can't take my PC to my reading room.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

I was pretty angry when I posted that. The real issue is they are real poor quality scans of a book> With a computer interface that is something a high school student wrote if I paid 10 bucks for it I might not be so mad but since I paid over a hundred bucks for it and am specifically using the schematics it is very frustrating. There is no excuse putting that quality product out. I have to wonder how many of you defending it are using a bootleg copy and not something you spent your hard earned money on. As to content I can only compare it to the to sets of shop manuals I own a Saturn and a Chevy pick up truck and as compared to these content wise it is lacking. My Saturn takes you to all but component repair Evan on things like the radio. Has a functional diagram of the transmission Tran’s axle. The Chevy even shows you how to rebuild starter’s alternators. It even shows how to change a tire and I don’t mean put the spare on. Your lucky the MBZ is on the computer so you can zoom in and try to figure out just what they scanned in is it a 1 l I j hard to tell quality is so poor I guess compared to other shop manuals I paid same or less for I am real disappointed. If any one wants to buy a brand new 116 service manual library I would feel guilty selling it for half price but its yours Ill even pay shipping. OK 25 percent of original price. Would you like to buy some AOL disks too
I guess we will agree to disagree.
PS I have AOL disks real cheap too.
Dave

Sorry folks,
but I have to agree with mattdave,
those cd's are an embarrassement to MBZ.
I am shocked at how pathetic the photo quality is.
Just rediculous.
I have found the instructions to often be poorly detailed as well.
I will sell my W123 cd's for cheap too.
I love my MBZ, at no small expense,
and we have a right to expect more!

The only MANUAL I can understand is that with each new problem, I search this forum for an hour and cut and paste into word. Then I print it out and put it in my own manual.

For each new problem a basic DIY'er still has to 'learn'. When people explain stuff here, one can understand them. But to try to figure out something from a sophisticated manual.....sigh.....

This forum is a tremendous asset and if the balance can remain between giving and taking, then we have a true manual.

Don

__________________
DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed

Amen, diesel don.

The CDs are an embarassement to MB. The quaility of the images are sooooo poor. It looks like at times they even scanned in poor copies of copies. Some images are all darkened out. What's up with that?

When I worked at the Ford Service Division, there was a group next to me converting manuals to their first computerized diagnostic system. After they scan in each page, the individual would edit the bitmap pixel by pixel to make sure that the page looked like the original.

I also have a beef with the paper manuals. Sometimes there are entire sections missing from the manuals. When I did my M103 rebuild, the engine manual had absolutely NO reference to anything having to do with the crankshaft, rods and pistons. Was it covered in some preceeding manual?

Just look at the group listings in the table of contents. Notice the missing groups?

__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

I dunno. It seems to me that MB is one of an increasingly small group of manufacturers who sells the the factory manuals. I guess if they were going to do them at all they should have been done at a higher level of quality, but they still are an essential part of an older MB owner's library. Many of the questions asked here are answered in the manuals; they can't be all bad.

__________________
Tjohn

82 300 SD
77 450 SL (gone)