ABS is for people who don't know how to drive. The keep you foot to the floor to stop types. I actually hate ABS, especially in my ford.. it is way too sensitive. I agree with JCD.. I have a good feel of the braking threshold.. the maximum braking point before the car starts skidding.

I take offense from those saying that ABS is a bandaid for bad driving. Not for for me it isn't. Its a useful tool. I've been driving longer than some in this forum have been alive and I haven't ever had a accident that was my fault. I welcome ABS on slippery or icy roads to keep me from skidding into something. That's why I won't drive my 300D in icy conditions because it doesn't have ABS.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

I have ABS on my jeep and was impressed with how well it worked in ice and snow. I pushed it just to know how it would react.

4x4 is great in the snow but if you can't go with 2x4 you probably shouldn't be on the road. Stopping on ice and snow is the real problem.

The Mercedes has 4 disks and stops really well. I haven't missed ABS. It is a euro model and may have a little stiffer suspension than the NA model.

I would like an understated, economical diesel wagon with ABS, advanced airbags and AWD, maybe someday.

I also agree that all of the safety features in the world are no substitute for defensive driving.

A wise man I had the honor of knowing once said that instead of safety features, an automobile should have a spike protruding from the steering wheel pointed straight into the driver's chest. That would prevent many accidents. It would prevent all repeat accidents.

Nothing personal, it's completly possible a *good* driver could make better use of it. I'd not turn down for instance, an SD with ABS, but I'd surely not go looking for it, much like an airbag.

Slightly related, last winter was my first with the 300D. Not a problem in snow, east coast or midwest. The PO used to get stuck in places I'd motor right past in my old FWD VW's, irked them to no end. I saw no problem with it as long as one was willing to not go stupidly fast. Same with brakeing, the input to my foot is so good and there so controled it was really easy to know what the wheels were doing. The brakes on this car continualy remind me of an older Corvette in good repair, just with less power assist. (that's a good thing)

I have a related brakeing question while were kinda sorta on it.
Does the brakeing effort differ a lot between w126's and/or ABS cars and such as my 300D? I've driven two 126's, both happen to have ABS, and they required a heck of a lot less foot pressure to stop than my 300D does. I don't mind really, and kind of prefer the control and feeling mine has, and it stops very well for what it is, but even sitting at a stop light(yes it's in 2nd at a stop), the 300D wants more foot on the brake than the two SD's I have to compare to. Input? I know the booster was replaced in the not too distant past, holds vacuum, fluid is fresh, no pull on brakeing, all is well as far as I can tell..

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One more Radar Lover gone...
1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

I find that I adapt to what I'm driving. My Exploder has ABS in the rear, or is it the front? I don't know, but it sucks and I consider it a burden because you still lose control. It seems to me that ABS needs to be all or none, 4 wheel or no-wheel.

The MB has great brakes, but no ABS. I simply find I drive more conservatively with the MB than the Exploder because I don't care what happens to the Ford, while I do care about the MB.

havent driven one (daily) with ABS... have test driven cars with them.. i kinda like it.. but i dont miss it... seems like i've develop an intimate relationship with my brake pedal that i just "feel" if i'm pressing too much to the point of lock up...

though we dont have the same driving conditions as you guys have there... we simply have dry and wet conditions.. not really to the point of slippery ice condition... so i wouldnt really know if ABS would help a lot on my part.. maybe if i get to visit the US.. i'll know.. ehehhe

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Mike

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1975 200 - Sold (no pix);
1978 200 - Sold - http://www.pbase.com/hboy/redbaron
1979 300TD - Sold
http://www.pbase.com/hboy/greenwagon
http://www.geocities.com/hboy726/300TD.html
1985 230E - now my daily driver...

For those who go to car shows or are old enough to remember, Detroit actually built cars like that in the 50s and 60s. The deep dished steering wheels had a spike hub in the middle that could impail you. Didn't seem to prevent accidents though. Mercedes has been the leader in passenger safety. Starting in the 60s, the steering wheel has always been a large, flat, energy absorbing safety item. The cars are designed with crumple zones front and back to protect the pass compt. The engine is set up to be driven down under the car in a severe front end hit instead of into the pass compt. Starting in the 80s the hoods have stops on the windshield end to fold the hood rather than let it slice into pass compt. The list goes on even to the rubber handled key to prevent it from slicing a driver's leg open. The doors are designed to stay closed in an accident and for the most part be easy to open after the accident. I can't speak for the new Chrysler built cars though.

Peter

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Auto Zentral Ltd.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wolf_walker
Nothing personal, it's completly possible a *good* driver could make better use of it. I'd not turn down for instance, an SD with ABS, but I'd surely not go looking for it, much like an airbag.

Slightly related, last winter was my first with the 300D. Not a problem in snow, east coast or midwest. The PO used to get stuck in places I'd motor right past in my old FWD VW's, irked them to no end. I saw no problem with it as long as one was willing to not go stupidly fast. .. [/ QUOTE]

Maybe I over reacted a little to the comment.

Funny thing about my 300D, maybe its the gearing of the '85 but it won't go anywhere if it loses the slightest amount of traction. I was in a grassy parking lot once during a rainy day and I couldn't get out of the lot because my wheels were spinning. A few helpful people saw my dilema and helped push me until I got traction. I have the same problem in snow. If it snows, the car stays home.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

I don't know lietuviai, could be the gears and the torque converter difference on the 85. One thing I always liked about weak-ish diesels in the snow and such is that you can apply just such a tiny bit og throttle and modulate it much better than a gasser. Untill the turbo spools, depending on one's state of tune..

I really had zero problems with the 123 last winter, my first with it. I'd expected it to be a nightmare, but was very plesantly surprised. You can't go fording snow banks and crawling along like I could in my VW's, but it was pretty darn good for a RWD I thought.

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One more Radar Lover gone...
1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

I've always heard that FWD cars were better in the snow or slick conditions than a RWD car. Frankly I've never driven a FWD, only 4X4's, in such conditions to really know for sure.

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DJ


84 300D Turbodiesel 190K with 4 speed manual sold in 03/2012

I don't like FWD in general, my VW's are so low powered it's not too much of an issue(the 1.9TD not withstanding). The tractability and light weight make them great in the snow, not so hot ground clearence though.

Any input on my 123/126 brake question from a few post up guys? It's one of my lingering questions from the last few months..

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One more Radar Lover gone...
1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

I'll take some shots at that question. I don't think ABS has anything to do with it othrt than if the car is late enough to have ABS, it has the upgraded and massive vented rotors. Also those cars had to have had gas engines that produced their own vacuum. The vacuum produced by the pump on the front of the diesel may be marginal. Also the two 126s may have OE pads which do stop well, but create alot of dust. I too notice that I need more pressure on my 83 wagon compared to an 88 and 90 I have that are gassers. The braking is definitely different on a 560 SEL, but that is a whole different animal. I will say, however, that the brakes on my wagon have never let me down in emergency situations. MB has always designed cars to stop as well as go, so maybe they engineered brakes that were adequate for a lumbering diesel and added extra stopping powerful to powerful126 cruisers. Before anyone attacks me with facts, these are just my thoughts on the question. I have no data.

Peter

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Auto Zentral Ltd.

My Exploder has ABS in the rear, or is it the front?

Rear. Starting in the mid-80's, Ford started putting rear ABS on most of its trucks and truck-based vehicles. That way they could set the brake bias for a full load in the back and not have to worry about rear brake lockup.
As far as traction in the snow, what I tell anyone who asks is that it doesn't really matter, front vs rear drive as long as you've got good tires and proper weighting. Different driving styles are required; front-drive seems a little more idiot-proof, but it isn't the godsend so many people have been talked into believeing it is (I'm speaking in general here, so don't anyone take this the wrong way). Some regular tires aren't too bad, the Toyos on my car and my Dad's Civic don't do too bad. My car in particular does well, even without weight in the back (I've chased 4x4s with it a time or two).
We have one car in our family that has ABS, which is my sister's Escort. I've had the ABS come on a couple times on snowpack and ice, but I really can't say I've made much use of it or that it has saved my bacon on any occasion. It isn't too intrusive, in my opinion. You can feel it working, and it prevents a flat-out skid, but with all such things, it can't overcome the laws of physics (same with AWD, it's not going to turn or stop any quicker--sorry Subaru). Actually, what most people would tell you would be a nightmare in winter, my rear-drive all drum brake Fairlane, has been more than manageable. Sure it's a handful if you're not being careful, but a light touch on the throttle, brakes, and sometimes clutch has gotten me through some pretty ugly conditions. I imagine the disk brakes make something like a W123 easier to modulate, but drums aren't so bad if they're non-power. With something like my borther's Dodge ('73 Coronet), however, you might have all kinds of trouble. He seemed to get along ok (although he went in the ditch last December, didn't say it was under braking, so ), but the brakes on that are touchy. Just putting your foot on the pedal the wrong way (not even really trying to brake) can be enough to lock it up under icy conditions. On my Dad's 300D, I seem to remember it not being too bad in terms of brakes. It got stuck easily, as I remember, but wasn't bad once it got going. My conclusion on ABS is that it's not a bad thing to have, and in fact can be a lifesaver if you're inexperienced, but it's hardly a night and day thing if you know what you're doing. Heck, I'll bet some really good winter drivers could buy a car with ABS and never realize it's there.

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Once and future king:
'64 Ford Fairlane w/approx 238,000 - looks rough, but amazingly reliable if you know how to look after it; I will soon begin work to totally restore and modernize it.
Family vehicles that I lay some claim to:
'78 300D w/approx 350,000 original, '62 Ford F100 4x4, '90 Ford E150 w/171,000 original

they were light and the rear aircooled engine was over the drive wheels. This is the same reason they excel when turned into dune buggies.

Modern front wheel drive cars also have the engine over the drive wheels, but of course this is also the end of the car that is used to steer. I think this might compromise snow performance somewhat.

I've restored my '73 beetle convertible, so no more snow use...but it was always great in any condition up to and including blizzards. Loved to drive in the snow with the top down.

Heck, I'll bet some really good winter drivers could buy a car with ABS and never realize it's there.

__________________Mt,

I couldn't agree with you more. Many years ago Christine and I went skiing at Sun Valley. When we were headed back to US80 we went through Twin Cities I believe. I commented to Christine that these people all drove like they were in lala land until I hit my brakes for the first time and coasted right through the stop sign. It was then that I realized that this flat lander had spoken to soon. These people knew how to deal with ice, and I had no clue.

Jim B,

Since I am close to Tahoe I get to enjoy the snow and watch people. It is fun to watch some clown with 18 inch wide tires which work well in the sand slip and slide all over the snow while a guy in a beetle with skinney tires goes over the snow bank and around the guy , because he is impeding traffic.

Peter

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