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I don't know what your thoughts are on a 5.0L Euro motor (126) swap into a 1988 190e 2.3 are but it is being done here. I only paid $1000 for the shell and the motor was cheap too. Brabus did this conversion in 1984 but they won't give me any info, claiming they can't come up with it. I'd like to know some thoughts on the suspension and rear differential. Several cuts and some "pounding out" has been done. I've fabbed the sway bar in front to compensate for the big oil pan and the exhaust manifolds are being changed to 4.5 manifolds (center exit) or may be fabbed as well. Transmission has obviously been changed as well. I've seen a 560 motor bored to 6.0L fit into a 190e so this project is possible.
Steering box has also ben a minor problem too so suggestions on that would be much appreciated too. I have easy access to the means and cost hasn't been in issue at all. The car won't cost me more than $3500 when all is said and done. Thank you for any suggestions whatsoever- Mike V. 1983 500SEC Euro 1988 190E 5.0L |
I think there's a similar project car on the 190revolution page. You'll have to search for it, but the owner of the page has bullentin-ed about 9 million times here (or every time he made a change to it) - so should be easy.
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Thanks for the info, I'll check it out.
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190 E 5.0 Info
Info on the final conversion would be appreciated: final cost? tranny? rear end change? electronics wiring harness?
some pics if you have them. |
My every day driver is a 190 with a small block Ford (now 342") and a 5 speed and was built at first in 1995 with updates of sorts ever since.
The rear in mine I feared would be too fragile and I wanted a ltd slip diff with better gearing. I've installed a diff from a 92 ZR1 Corvette ( same as a Viper) with a 3.42 gear ratio. The axles are custom Spicer units as is the one piece driveshaft. All is balanced great and never a problem so far with reliability. After doing more searching a 8.8 Ford diff from a late Lincoln MkVIII, Thunderbird or Cougar all with an independent rear will also fit. Superformance uses this in their Cobra kits with big blocks!! A simple front sway bar with beef is a 124 - 400E or 500E as they have a projection in the sump area. Just cut off 1 1/2" from each end and install. The 400E is 1.055" and the 500E is 1.125"D. I'm now in the process of making an additional 3/4" bar that is adjustable for the rear. To eliminate all my steering constraints, I've put in rack and pinion and shortened the arms for better response and feel. For suspension, Eibach 2.6 springs and Bilstein sport shox handle it well as it weighs just 2980...54% frt/ 46% rear. Sounds as if you have a handle on your project and should have humps of torque! Good luck. Tobias MB 4 MBs |
190E Ford V8
Tobias MB:
I am just on the plannig stages of a Ford V8-190E conversion cost being major consideration now to see if it's better to do it myself (insure it's done right) or buy a converted car. Saw an ad for a Ford V8 302 190 E in CA about year ago but was on the hands of a used car dealer that was not very nice to deal with (one of those take or leave guys); that car advertised for $4,500 but could not get any info on the conversion at all. If you know of one for sale, I would consider it. Thanks for the info and would love to learn more about your Ford V8 car experience, it sounds as if it has been done the right way and I would like to know more about it so if you like you can e-mail me directly at : relo-lan@zianet.com |
I have had the pleasure of seeing some pics of Tobias's modified 190.
To say that he has done a great job with this car is an understatement. It takes a dedicated person with alot of time, patience, and great fabrication skills to do this kind of work. Be sure and plan your project thorghly, and be honest with yourself about the amount of time and money it will take you. |
I thought this thread was dead!!
I ended up putting in a 3.8L V8 from a 1981 SL. Its a euro motor so it cranks out more horsepower. The motor only had 67,000 miles so still in good shape. I left the rear end just to see how it would hold up and it has been fine- except for excessive rear wheel spin by one tire- no posi! I'm going to look for a 16v diff because I would like to keep the car all mercedes. I liked the 3.8 since it was a bit smaller, would rev faster and only had about 20 horses less than a euro 5.0 (from 126 car.) A 560SL radiator fit nicely into a 2.6 radiator housing so I have plenty of cooling with dual fans from a new C class. The car never gets above 100 degrees even in Phoenix- 105 right now! The exhaust is connected with a 3" y-collector and followed by a flowmaster muffler... the only thing non-mercedes. Probably get a Remus someday. Left the suspension so far since the iron block of the original 190E weighs about as much as the 3.8L aluminum. Haven't taken it to the track yet but it should run 14s no problem. Fun car to drive! Let me know if you have any questions. Mike 500SEC Euro 190E 3.8 Euro |
Pictures?
Mike,
Sounds like a great conversion! Are you using the SL automatic transmission? If so, any plans for a manual conversion? I'd love to see some pictures, exterior, engine bay, etc... |
[IMG]C:\My Documents\My Pictures\3-24-2001 927a\190E 3.8\IM000038.JPG[/IMG]
Haven't thought about doing a manual tranny yet. I don't think I'd get any traction at all by taking off at 3500rpm! We've messed with the timing so it shifts at good power points. I'm having trouble adding more than one photo to the reply template here. Any suggestions? I'll give it a shot. Mike 500SEC 190E 3.8 |
Mike,
Use the 'Attach file:' option or to post more than one picture you'll need to upload your pictures to a webhost and reference them in your reply. Complete instructions are in the FAQ. |
Mike- can you detail what it took to place a 1981 3.8 V8 SL motor in the 190E?
Tobias MB- can you detail what you did to switch to rack & pinion steering? I'd like to do the same with the 360TE wagon. Tobias MB and Mike, would any of you be willing to do the same for a 1986-1990 300E and sell the car for say $10-13K. Thanks, :-) neil |
RandP conversion
Neil,
Tried to write more and was ready to send it, but good ole AHOL decided to cut me off, again, so now it will be short. I made a bumpsteer guage and calculated where the rack should be positioned. This was after I had decided to use a rear steer vs. front because of less work making new steering arms etc. I used 124 arms, cut them, dropped them 3/4" and shortened them 1 1/2" to gain my travel back which is lost in the conversion. The arms were then reinforced and sent out to be properly annealed and re-heat treated to oe specs. This segment was the most time consuming of all and necessary for an American V8. A starter would interfere with the idler arm, but OK if you just wanted to turn left, ala NASCAR! The Ford motor was used because of three things: 1. Lighter than a Chevy etc. 2. Distributor in front, no interference with the hvac, placing motor more rearward. 3. Fords have a front sump as a MB does. Your last question leaves me asking....would you provide a car? what do you want done?...and to what extent?...etc? I do have a super clean 88 300CE for sale, loaded but with 170k on it. Black with tan. And 190 pedal clusters fit in it for a five/six speed! TobiasMB 4 MBs |
TobiasMB:
I'm hoping to find a white, silver, or champagne/gold 300E with a bad motor & tranny that I could send to you for the conversion. Unless you have better luck finding one. Mike: please post pictures of that 3.8V8 conversion! If you're having problems, email me the pictures and I'll host them. :-) neil 1988 360TE AMG |
Sorry if these pictures are big, so please don't shoot the messenger. These are Mike's photos of his 3.8L V8 into a W201 chassis.
Enjoy, :-) neil http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/sportline/images/small.JPG http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/sportline/images/motor.JPG |
Will be on the lookout
Neil,
I'll be on the lookout for a possible chassis here in my area, but considering where you live, there are other possibilities. To do the steering swap correctly, the engine and tranny should be out of the car which I assume you would be placing up for sale. To ship the car to you in California is not cheap and if not driveable, a surcharge is usually added to the freight. You'd have to check out of curiosity with some shippers....many can be found in Hemmings. What the freight would be alone, you could probably get the job done there by a good street rod facility and they could probably make engine mounts etc for you. Most have bare blocks and tranny casings to work with for setups. If I had to do it all over again, this is probably the route I would have taken to save so much time...and they have more experience. To find a reputable shop, ask around in the street rod/gearhead groups for recommendations. It's similar to finding a good independant shop to work on your MB. Let me know what you decide and if you can find a shop. Good luck, Tobias MB 4 MBs |
rear diff on 190E
Noticed you guys who are swapping engines do a lot of discussion on the rear diff setup. I got a 1990 190E 2.6 stock setup w/ a growl inthe rear diff that is getting worse. SHop I use found a new one in Jersey they will install for $1900. I found a used one for $350 I have to install. Anyone know what diff from what years I can use to replace my bad one? I was told a 1990 190E 2.6 could use a 1991 rear diff, but a 1992 will not work. Will older ones work? I really would like to get the posi rear diff from something to install. Please help.:)
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Call Rick at RC Imports ( http://www.rc-imports.com/ ) and tell him you want a limited-slip for your 190E.
He has rebuilt ones for approx. $425 Your 190E should be able to take a 3.27, 3.47, or 3.07 limited-slip, esp. if you don't have ASR. Good luck, :-) neil |
new rear diff
Neil, you are the man! Thanks a lot...could not find info on a rear diff anywhere, let alone the posi diff
Thanks again Christopher |
No problem. You may or may not need to change the ABS diff. sensor (get one from Rick). Whatever you do, don't purchase it new.
Also, please post back what you end up doing. Take care, :-) neil |
Man, am i seeing what im seeing!
a 190E with a V-8!..... damn nice! not to mention that it doesn't look like it has a V-8... sleeper :p |
But where would you get a "3.8" badge, or would you call it a 380E?
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The 3.8 badge
Actually, I made a 3.8 badge by cutting the 3 and the 8 out of a 380 badge and placing them between the decimal on the old 2.3 badge. It looks like it came from the factory! I was just going to leave it debadged but you could see the faded 2.3 sign in the paint and it looked bad without a paint job. Neil should have a view of it in some of the pics I sent him. (I can't seem to post pics here for some reason.)
Mike |
5 liter ford V8
How much experience does an engine/tranny converstion like a 190E to a 5l ford?
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George,
It takes about the same as with all reliable conversions: initiative, time and money. All not being equal! The hardest and most time consuming part is the replacement of the OE steering system with rack and pinion, either front steer or rear steer. This HAS to be done as there is no motor besides MB that has the clearances to clear all the steering mechanism. This is the 'money' part...have a professional do it if you're not comfortable with your skills. I've built and done swaps for over forty years and this is a toughie but well worth the effort, almost equal to the Corvair/Z28 I did back in '72. A great sleeper for the street! Once the chassis is setup, steering again, the rest is not much of a problem as the room is there. For the small block Ford you have to go with the serpentine belt system and shortened water pump used in newer motors. A T5 5spd tranny fits fine but with the use of a McLeod hydraulic throw out bearing that slides on to the guide tube of the tranny as there is no room for a throwout fork. An aluminum radiator 26"wide by 19" high fits nicely and is common. Mine is a 26 X21 to better cool the 5.66L motor. Motor mounts are stock MustangGT with adapters to the crossmember. Mine has all the OE accessories...P/S, A/C, and a 120A alternator along with 3" exhaust, Bassani SS muffler, Corvette diff w/LS, 400E brakes, adjustable rear swaybar and a host of other mods. Weight is 2980 and is 54/46% f/r balance with aluminum heads and the battery in the trunk. Any questions, feel free to ask... Tobias MB 4 MBs |
5l ford in 190E
there is no way that i think i could handle any kind of conversion so i guess i would need to find someone else to do it for me....where would I even begin to look for soemthing like that?
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George,
I'd open the yellow pages and look under Automobiles, racing and sports cars to find a fabricator. Look for a shop that does street rods or performance work. As large as Hotlanta is there must be one close, if not I know of one just north of you over the SC border on I-85 near Greenville. Ask around at any speed shops or engine builders as they usually know/deal with them. That is also a good way to check their references before committing $$ to them. Good luck, Tobias MB |
Tobias
Did you say Corvair/Z28 ? Do you mean a rear engine flat six in a Camaro:eek:
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Sure Jim...
Did that conversion after I put the Z28 motor in the Corvair. It was the only way I could sell off all the leftover parts! Found it was easier to sell a six cyl, air cooled Camaro that could be driven than sell the pieces.
Never drove the Camaro very fast (6 cyl!) but had the speedo on the Corvair between 10 and 15, the second time around, or roughly 155mph. Was racing a 440ci Roadrunner top end at the time. Tobias MB 4 MBs |
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lookin under the bonnet of a 190, there don't seem to be much difference to my w123. If i remember rightly the only mod i had to carrie out when fittin my merc v8 was on the engine mounts all the rest just seemed to go into place. I was amazed how simple it turned out. i left the origional diff in, so the initial pull off was a little on the slugish side but when it got to about 40mph it just came alive. I was told by numerous people that the diff was strong enough to cope with the power and if i were to change it, to put the 280 diff in, inplace to give me better accel/topend
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In all my years...Zeb
Zeb,
In all my years with MB's I do not honestly thing I have ever seen any Benz quite as radical as yours...Not anywhere. You win the "never seen that before" award for you unique hoppin' Benni! Cheers and Happy New Year. Crhenkel |
its nice to do somethin that little different!!!
:D :D :D |
Tobias,
stop teasing everyone and puts some photos of your 190-5.6. Guys I have seen this beast. This is undoubtably the best conversion I have ever seen on a 190 and it seriously giggles and goes! Don't forget to show the badge. Is it still 190D High Output. Even the machining of the modified badge is top notch. Nicely fitted with some wide rubber on 928 , yes 928, wheels with MB logos. |
Thanks for the kind words...
Dwight,
Where have you been as haven't heard a peeps from you in a while. Give me an update! Thought you'd want to go to the Atlanta GTG in Dec. You missed a good time/party but there WILL be another, trust e.p. to come through again! Yes, I'll try to work some photos up as soon as I figure how to work my Christmas present, a digital camera. Have to stay away from the shop long enough to play with it and not cars! Never enough time and now getting ready to run with the Porsches at Road Atlanta on 1/25-26. Tobias MB 190/5.6 |
Tobias,
Ever get that camera? |
Yes, have the camera but still never learned how to compress so all photos leave here two at a time...sort of like Noah did!
The car now has Corvette 9.5" X17" wheels on it with 255/40 and 275/40 tires on. The front brakes are now Panoz calipers with rear TransAm rotors mounted to homemade hats. Before it would go great in a straight line, but now turns and stops better than before! Pulls Z-06 Vettes on the straights, fun! Tobias MB |
Quote:
go to file, save as a window pops up, a slide bar labeled "quality" is on in the window slide it down, it will estimate file size then click ok |
what about swapping a newer v8? Say like a 4.3L from a C43
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I have been reading this thread with what can only be described as as "interest". A friend and I are in the process of purchasing a 190E and a 500SEL with the intention of swapping over the V8, running gear, brakes and electrics. Now if there is anyone out there that can enlighten me with any pitfalls I may encounter I would be more than grateful.
Ian |
Since Toby hasn't done it yet, here are some frames grabbed from the time Toby gave me a ride in his 190E-5.0L at the Porsche Club Event at Roebling Road, GA.
Nothing like pulling AWAY from a Porsche 930 turbo in a 190E . . . :-) neil http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/190E/5L-driver.jpg http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/190E/5L...-passenger.jpg http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/190E/5L-passenger.jpg |
QuickTime movie of Toby's car at Roebling Road.
Right-click and Save: http://www.silcom.com/~neilv/Toby-190E.mov :-) neil |
A little help....
Hello all, I just came across this forum, and it turns out to be exactly what im looking for. Im planning a 400 SBC swap into my 1984 190. I see everyone likes to use the 5.0 Fords so i guess I'll just go against the grain a little. What im really wondering though, is if a new steering configuration is absolutely required? Is there any way around it to keep the factory setup? And also, how has everyone gone about mounting an all new rear end into a 190? I figured that would be quite difficult so I was looking for any ideas or proven steps to replace the weak factory rear end. ANY help would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
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Quote:
:-) neil |
good fun all
just a thought.
i have contemplated these types of swaps many times and always caught myself before doing any. if i did one, despite the fun of a sneaky car, i wouldn t leave a d emblem on a car with a gas engine just cause someone might one day put the diesel in the tank and you would have a problem. glad you all are having a lot of fun. oh yeah, the sbc is about 4" wider than the sb ford, so i would expect clearance problems at the inner fenders. tom w |
Hey Toby,
Wow, You put a lot of work into that 190! looks like it's a blast to drive! Could you give me some info as to how your axle shafts were constructed and where you purchased the parts for your links? I really need to stiffen up this area since I'm going to be adding 450HP. P.S. The springs worked out great! Thanks! Adam |
Quote:
The rear-suspension links I believe were parts sourced from Tru-choice and Toby put them together. :-) neil |
Hey Neil,
Thanks for the info! I cannot seem to find Tru-Choice. Do they have a website? Also, Spicer is just a brand name for U-joint,, Right? Thanks Again! Adam |
not to threadjack, but I figured this would be the most appropriate thread for my w201/V8 conversion questions....
I've been looking at either getting a hold of a 5.0 m119, or a 5.6 m117 for the swap. The car is a '91 2.6 BTW....basically, I'm just curious which one would be more feasible. From what I can tell, the '117 has a few advantages over the 119 -cheaper -more readily available from recycling yards, ebay, etc -uses old injection system (CIS-E right?) but then the 119 has some advantages too -more power (probably the biggest thing) -more efficient intake/airbox I'm a mechanical engineering major so I think that I have a pretty good grasp on a lot of the technical stuff, but I would like to stay away from anything that will require a ton of fabrication. People have mentioned that the steering box had to be swapped out in favor of a rack/pinion system.....although I could do that if necissary, it would be preferrable not to. Does anyone know anything about an MB V8 swap into the w201, and how much fabrication and general banging around would be involved? Also, does anyone have any idea what a good manual transmission would be for either of these engines? (5 or 6 spd only....not a fan of 4-spd) Thanks for any help that anyone can offer!! |
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