Hi all,

I'm new here but from Mbworld and have been reading some awesome post here.
I have a 1997 E320 with the m104 engine approx 98000 miles.
I want to add the same Rotrex c30-94 supercharger that Blown 104 has done.
I cant seem to get a hold of him.
Does anyone know what pully size I should order the supercharger with?
I'm looking to get the following;

310-350 whp
7-8psi can I get away without the intercooler, or should I intercool? Whats hp difference?
Rotrex c30-94 supercharger or c38-61, which is better for the engine?
Oil cooler
AEM F/IC piggy back
AEM Uego digital A/F guage
AEM digital boost guage
Vortech bypass valve
Stock internals
Tune from SpeekTek in Long Island
Daily Driver
Does this sound reasonable for what I want to achieve? Forgive me if I missed any previous post.

Thanks,
Rock

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I asked the same thing it would be better and cheaper to go with nitrous.Anytime you Supercharge or turbo charge you need a machine shop skills to make custom parts for you.To be safe as connecting rods are weak in the m104,I was going to run 6 psi.Because a centrifugal charger is easier to mount,I would have no boost till 5000 rpm,so nothing at take off.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran, deutschland deutschland uber alles uber alles in der welt

Yes, i read your posts earlier.
Fabricating a template for the brackets and locating a machine shop to cut the brackets from metal is no problem.(wish I could get my hands on Blownm104's bracket template)
I still wish to pursue the project, I know the costs of the parts including the tuning and connecting the Aem piggy back.

Whipple, I see your experience in supercharging. Please review and reply to my first post.

Thanks,
Rock

interesting......I would have thought 6psi was bugger all for these engines? I thought the M104 shared same conrods as the M103? If so, they are far far from weak

I know I am turbocharging & not SC & sorry if I'm hyjacking the thread a little but statements like this strike a cord, especially on this part of the forum. I know I'll be running 1 bar boost once engine has been allowed a few K on say 0.5 bar as it has been sitting for nearly 2 years.......& I know I'll be running a stand alone with injection. Stock CIS-E will definitely need capable hands @ the tune as Ed has attested to so many times.

When I looked at the rods in the original M103 engine that had forged pistons in, the stock rods looked quite strong!

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um.....why have men got nipples

To help the readers here...

The M104 rods aren't weak. I discentegrated a piston and the rod put 4 holes in the block before it bent, and even then it's because it tried to have the piston pin and crank counterweight occupy the same place.

If you need to put forged rods in your motor you're breaking power numbers that nobody has yet achieved in an M104. Roman I'm guessing has the highest HP on the boards and he's running stock rods.

The 350SD crank isn't stronger. It has a longer throw. To use it you're going to need shorter rods. The H22A Honda rods solve this issue. They're not stock honda rods, which are weaker than MB rods. Anything else you thought you read about honda rods was because the M104 uses the same journal diameter as a Honda.

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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline

For all the experienced;
I will be running 2.5 inch piping from the intercooler to the intake manifold. After I remove the factory intake pipe it seems there is another adapter that has to be removed also? I want to run the pipe under the manifold as some guys did on the forum.
Question, what size of an elbow will I need to fit the Plenum to my 2.5 inch pipe.
I just want to play it safe and gather as much information before I start the project so I can get my order list right.

Take a look at this bypass valve and let me know if its a better option than the Bosch please

TurboXS Type 25 Racing Bypass Valve

thanks,
Rock

OK I did a little investigation, I'll Need a 3.25 to a 2.5 reducing elbow.
one problem, I noticed the adapter that is over the throttle body has a hole and attached to that hole on the outside of it is a short hose that goes to a small box enclosure un der the rear of the intake manifold. What do I do with tis hose once the 90 degree elbow is installed for the piping to the intercooler? What is the purpose of this box?
Thanks
Rock

I did take off the intake tube an measure it
this is the pictures

Your power levels are doable. The engine if tuned properly can handle 400 crank hp safely. Once you pass that then you are getting close to piston tolerance. It will take it for a little while. The engines are cheap to buy and replace so go at your own risk. If you want to go much higher then pistons are a must. Any detonation at those power levels will compromise a piston in short order. I can get you custom pistons and rods from my profiles at any time you wish. You should definitely intercool. I do not know much about the rotrex superchargers but they should have a flow chart that you could match up to your boost and engine displacement in cfm. THe piggy back has been done on a turbo car of the same year. Look for that thread. You could get the turbodiesel intercooler or similar size for easy of hooking up. If your headgasket is not very fresh replace that. Also the transmission will not last very long in stock form depending on driving. You should upgrade the pressure vavles and have the transmission redone with more clutches and tighter clearances.
Most importanly have fun and be safe.

Whipple, can you look at the attached link for the flow charts for the C30-94
charger (scroll down) and translate for me in terms fo my engine? I dont know how to read it. Can you get any approx. hp figures from it and where in the rpm range I will start making power?. Also do you know how to calculate the pully size for the charger?

http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/rotrex/pdf_rotrex/C30.pdf

Thanks,
Rock

The c30-94 looks like it is in the range you want. At 80k rpm which is 80% of peak and then go 80% of max rpm at 10,500 so a peak rpm without math of a little over 8,000 pulley rpm. So your crank pulley is 6 inches in diameter and your peak engine rpm is a little over 6,000 rpm so you would want a 1.4:1 ratio pulley. So you would want a 4.3 inch pulley for around 8500 rpm. Your boost will be linear to engine rpm. So your peak boost will be at max rpm. Half of that at 3,--- rpm. I did not do any of the proper calculations for this but this should be in the ballpark. I might start with a slightly smaller pulley unless you can get some confirmation on this.

Whipple, I just got off the phone with OliverJr at Jackson Racing before you made your post, they are a rotrex distributor. he recommended a 95mm pulley for my application. I gave him 6 in dia for the crank pulley and told him 6400 rev limit.
I really admire your knowledge and thank you for you help. This is why I joined this forum, great people, great minds.
Thanks,
Rock

I tend to agree the rods are tough in these old 6 cylinder engines. I once had a customer come in (edit: DRIVE in) with a SEVERE knock in a 300SEL. Disassembly revealed that the #1 exhaust valve broke and took the piston clean off the pin. That left the rod (with pin) to slap back and forth in the bore and had beaten a 1 inch groove in either side of the bore. I certainly wouldn't call that the weak point of the engine.

FWIW, I run 9psi non-intercooled (turbo) on a high mileage (266k) 103 longblock. I fully expect to eventually lose a piston, but I don't lose any sleep over the rods.

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90 300TE 4-M
Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim
T04B cover .60 AR
Stage 3 turbine .63 AR
A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR
MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control
3" Exh, AEM W/B O2
Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys,
Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster.
3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start

90 300CE 104.980
Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression
197° intake cam w/20° advancer
Tuned CIS ECU
4° ignition advance
PCS TCM2000, built 722.6
600W networked suction fan
Sportline sway bars
V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff

Good to know

I learned the limatations of the m104 on this forum, I learned if you crave boost., To rebuild engine using forged rod Honda or Ford pistons,Sd350 crank.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran, deutschland deutschland uber alles uber alles in der welt