350 SL 5 speed

[Rev. Buzz]

I believe I have come across a 1972 or 73 350SL 5 speed.
I'm in the process of Investagating this rare Mercedes.
I've seen 4 speed 350 SL's & those are rare.
Anyone have any info on this "Unicorn" of a 107 ?
Thanks
Rev. Buzz

[Dr. Sternschnuppe]

The 350 SL was equipped from factory with 4-speed manual, 3- or 4-speed automatic only.

[Graham]

This was discussed over on BW some time ago. Seems MB did make a 5-speed but only installed in 350SL in very rare special cases. Others it seems modified the 4-speed which became a 5-speed.

Was a 5-speed bolted to an m116, or does mbfool count reverse? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

[fonzi]

Originally Posted by Graham

This was discussed over on BW some time ago. Seems MB did make a 5-speed but only installed in 350SL in very rare special cases. Others it seems modified the 4-speed which became a 5-speed.

Was a 5-speed bolted to an m116, or does mbfool count reverse? - Mercedes-Benz Forum

There's no option in the EPC for the r107 350sl to be a five speed. I think that maybe the w109 and w111 coupe may have had the five speed option, but I'm away from the EPC right now. I think that the 5-speed transmission parts that MBFool needed to do his conversion in the link above are also quite rare.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by fonzi

There's no option in the EPC for the r107 350sl to be a five speed. I think that maybe the w109 and w111 coupe may have had the five speed option, but I'm away from the EPC right now. I think that the 5-speed transmission parts that MBFool needed to do his conversion in the link above are also quite rare.

I am sure it was not an option. But according to that thread (or perhaps elsewhere?), I think I read that MB put in a 5-speed in one or two specially built cars.

I can't understand going to a lot of trouble to convert a 4-speed to a 5-speed for practical reasons. But just as an interesting project? Why not!

[fonzi]

Originally Posted by Graham

I am sure it was not an option. But according to that thread (or perhaps elsewhere?), I think I read that MB put in a 5-speed in one or two specially built cars.



I can't understand going to a lot of trouble to convert a 4-speed to a 5-speed for practical reasons. But just as an interesting project? Why not!

As I remember it and have corresponded with MBFool, it seems to require a 6-cylinder 5-speed transmission, like that from an early 280sl r107 (not the 717.4xx which is so very common after about 1981, but the 1974-1976 version of the five speed which is pretty rare, like that of mach7 or mach107, the green one in California). I'd love to do it to get overdrive, but I guess there's other ways to get the same affect with fewer gears, like using a low ratio differential. You will get far lower highway RPMs with a 2.24/2.27 differential than you'd get with a 3.23 or 3.07 with overdrive.

[rowdie]

The only V/8 five speed manual I am aware of installed in a 107 was not installed by MB. It was installed by AMG prior to Mercedes buying them out. Very rare. There are five maybe six in North America.

[fonzi]

Originally Posted by rowdie

The only V/8 five speed manual I am aware of installed in a 107 was not installed by MB. It was installed by AMG prior to Mercedes buying them out. Very rare. There are five maybe six in North America.

I consider the Getrag 265 conversions a different beast since it's not really a MB creation, and consists of non MB parts. MBFool's creation was done with all MB parts.



Getrag 265 5.0 I am aware of:

- 48hp's

- rjmburgess's (maybe done by "Helmut" who used to work at AMG)

- kmuckerjee's purchase of the one originally owned by Harvey Crane

- a red one recently (2017) purchased in Pennsylvania. 300km speedo, pentas. Body kit.

- long ago, a guy in NY area, but I forget the details

- a 380slc converted to something better, and then modified from an automatic to a getrag 265 in about 2015.

- not a 107, but the only 126 I've heard of is the rusty W126 owned by a blind man that died to then be purchased from his caretaker by Mercmaster.

I'd still like to get my hands on one of those bell housings. Not long from now I should have a solid alloy block 5.0 (not 450slc 5.0 motor with detachable flange) and a getrag 265 and all the 3.5 manual parts all in the same place, simply awaiting the creation of a bell housing to mate the getrag 265 to the 5.0.

I think that the v8 manual creations should be divided into two classes:

1) iron block creations based on the 3.5 4-speed (450slc 5.0 would fall into this category since they use the same flange as iron block v8)

2) getrag 265 on alloy 1980+ blocks that require custom bell housings.

There are obviously other ways to make a five speed like with a Tremec or other desirable transmission, but we've seen the above two systems used more than once.

I wish I had the EPC handy to determine if the w108/109 and w111 cars had the option code in the EPC. I'm away from home right now and don't have access to the EPC.

[DieselPaul]

There is a black Getrag 265 500SL R107 in Columbus, OH.

Couple of thoughts for the OP, have you driven the car and shifted it into 5th gear?

I've run across several "5speed Mercedes" over the years and several times it was either a 5speed W201/124 knob on an earlier 4speed shifter, or more likely the seller is using '5speed' as a generic term for a manual gearbox. I've looked at Corvettes with 6 forward gears people called "a 5speed" over the phone, and looked at 4speed 240Ds people referred to as a 5speed. Like how people call every tissue a Kleenex.

[C.Doner]

It was a very rare AMG conversion AFIK . I saw some of the documentation It looked real. It was in German but from what I could tell they had a very high torque rating for the gearbox. They beefed it up quite a bit since the Getrag GL265 is rated for 265NM You can find the bell housings made in Germany for conversions now by a different company. There could be some hacks out there. The reason they did not use the MB box Getrag (GL275) could have been for a number of different reasons,I believe. One may be the GL265 has the separate bell housing. Another could be parts availability or ease of modification. Also MB patents may have come into play. Rule is to check in person as to the verification. Pretty much if its not AMG then its not the real deal.

[fonzi]

There was a 350sl or 350slc 5-speed on eBay in the last ~6 months and the seller had no idea when or where or how it was converted.

You can apparently take a pre-1976 5 speed 6-cylinder transmission and use main shaft or something like MBFool did to modify the 4-speed v8 trans. But in the EPC, I think I've seen 5-speed options for very early 3.5 cars.


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[C.Doner]

I will have to correct myself. It seems the number on the designation from Getrag may or may not refer to the torque rating. Depending on make and model.
As for the Gl275 eg. 717.400,401,402, 404. the rating is 275nm. Weather Getrag made a 265 with a higher torque rating IDK. Those older 350 5 speed would have the older style MB gearbox I assume.

[Graham]

Interesting discussion, but OP seems to have Buzzed off

[C.Doner]

Must have been juggling too many things in my head.The AMG car I was thinking of was a 500Sl with the modified getragGL265 (BMW box) that rated at more like 450 nm of torque.