Looking to replace my E320 with an ML320 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Bigdaddybenz · #1 01-01-2009, 11:07 AM

I had a 1997 E320 that recently was assassinated by a hiuge pine tree (see picture here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=241064&highlight=1997+e320).....

As I am looking to replace my vehicle, I was considering purchasing a 2001 ML320 with 103,000 miles on it.....The asking price is $8,000.00 but the seller is willing to negotiate.....At first glance it looks really well taken care of and the seller has all service records!

That said, I decided to do a web search of consumer reviews about this vehicle. After reading Edmunds reviews I'm almost terrified to purchase this vehicle.

As you guys appear to be the EXPERTS, I am asking for owners of this vehicle to chime in with their opinions and advice......I know a lot about Mercedes and often repair the 4 that we have but know NOTHING about the ML class......Please help!

Thanks in advance

Bigdaddybenz · #2 01-01-2009, 11:30 AM

Wow!!!......... Just saw this!!!!! I'd have to be INSANE to purchase an ML320!

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w163/88443-list-stuff-watch-out-163-a.html

Richard Wooldridge · #3 01-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Right now seems to be a real good time to buy one of these upscale SUV's, the repo lots around here are full of them! I just bought a 2001 ML320 yesterday, the interior looks like new, the exterior also except for a very small chip in the paint above the gas filler lid. New tires, 92K miles, listed at 7995, they took my 6950 offer. It had belonged to an older realty agent who lost his shirt when the market tanked, had personalized plates, was taken care of very well. The only thing I can find that it will need is a new fuel filter, the fuel pressure goes away too soon, and then it cranks for too long when starting. I would take all the criticism of these rigs with a grain of salt, considering that many of the problems would be eliminated by the time you buy a used vehicle. Good check list to run through, though! My brother has a 2000 ML430, he's had it for 5 or 6 years, no problems with it at all.

Gene Horr · #4 01-01-2009, 03:15 PM

Most problems occur once early in the vehicle's life and then never occur again. The ongoing issues (brake switch, MAF sensor, EGR tube, etc.) are simple and cheap fixes and don't occur that often.

At 100k miles you are looking at all of the items that go wrong with _ALL_ vehicles with this age and use. Budget $4k for front end work, anything that has rubber in it and accessories and you'll be set for another 100k miles.

They are actually quite dependable vehicles as long as the owner kept up with the regular repairs. Most of the issues you read about had very simple and quick fixes then never occured again as I mentioned above. The bad reputation came from the dealers through either incompetance or greed using a minor repair issue (such as the $25 brake switch) as an excuse to replace $2k worth of electronics. Then the owners stopped doing the required maintenance and the vehicles started deteriorating. If maintained correctly there have been no reports I have read of major problems other than rebuilding a transmission in the 170k - 200k mile range. Something which is fairly normal for most vehicles, though it should be noted that not changing the fluid can substantially shorten the lifespan of the transmission. The vehicles were advertised as the transmission being "sealed for life", with the issue of "life" being just slightly longer than the warranty period. MB Germany has now reversed itself on this position as has many of the US dealers if you ask them quietly. But apparently MBUSA is scared of another class action lawsuit and the official response is that they are "sealed for life" and the fluid should not be changed. If they were now to admit that this advice was wrong it would open them up for some expensive claims.

As long as you have a complete maintenance history, get the vehicle checked out, and have money set aside for the normal repairs you should be fine purchasing this vehicle.

itb76 · #5 01-01-2009, 11:19 PM

Agreed, they have a few issues but they're great cars, built like tanks. Having said that, it's a truck, so it won't ride or handle like an E-class. But it can tow and haul more stuff. Superb snow vehicle, but what do you care you're in Atlanta!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene Horr

If maintained correctly there have been no reports I have read of major problems other than rebuilding a transmission in the 170k - 200k mile range...

Well THAT makes me feel good; I'm at 185K. No way is the fluid good for a "lifetime". Mine started shifting poorly at ~114K IIRC; a flush took care of the problem and another is planned for 200K.

Good luck!

Bigdaddybenz · #6 01-02-2009, 05:44 AM

Thanks a lot for the replies, it appears as though the ML class may not be as bad as most consumer reviews rate them.....What type of fuel consumption is associated with an ML320???....I've read the various "mpg ratings" on the web but I'm thinking that you guys would have more realistic numbers....

Also, how can I tell that the "Harmonic Balancer" has been replaced?????

I also ran across a thread about an "electronic box" that cost a whopping $5,000.00 to replace (dealer item only).......Honestly, in these economic times, I do not want to bring a "money pit" into my life.....

Though my 1997 E320 is gone, we still have my wife's 1995 E320 wagon and my "back up vehicle" a 1983 300SD.....All 3 of them have not gone to the dealer or a repair shop, I personally have made all repairs (I was an ASE Certified mechanic for a little more than a decade from 1987-1999, though never a Benz tech) so I'm wondering if my skills would save me any huge repair costs on an ML class, but a $5,000 part would be the kiss of death for me!

Thanks for the replies guys!

itb76 · #7 01-02-2009, 10:59 AM

We get about 17-20 mpg typically.

compress ignite · #8 01-02-2009, 07:23 PM

TurboDiesel Glendewagon

Look for a nicely maintained '80s Glendewagon
(with the 617.XXX series TurboDiesel engine)
There are more than a few in the Metropolitan Atlanta Area.

Mercedes never opened a Secondary Assembly location,Overseas, to
compensate for any Glendewagon Q.C. Issues (There weren't any)

You will not have to think about all the QC issues of the M,Ml,Gl,Etc.,Etc.
You will not mistake it for an Automobile.

Skid Row Joe · #9 01-02-2009, 07:45 PM

Sounds a tad overpriced, but go for it! Too bad MB didn't put turbodiesels in them that far back. That'd be the only way I'd own one, if it's diesel. But at the kinds of prices being quoted on this thread for nice used MLs, I would strongly consider one, were I wanting an ML on the cheap. Even though they're gassers.

Gene Horr · #10 01-03-2009, 12:57 AM

>What type of fuel consumption is associated with an ML320???

It is heavily dependent on your driving style. I've got accurate numbers on the ML430 using US gallons:

City 16 mpg
Hwy 55mph 20 mpg
Hwy 65mph 19 mpg
Hwy 75mph 17/18 mpg

Towing I don't remember exact figures but IIRC the worse number was 12mpg towing 3 tons @ 75 mph. Towing 1-2 tons @ 65 mph was in the 14-15 mpg range.

The 320 should get anywhere from 10-15% better assuming the exact same driving style. But to give you a comparison on driving style effects my wife drives like a NY taxi and gets at best 14mpg in the city and 5-10% worse on the highway.

> Also, how can I tell that the "Harmonic Balancer" has been replaced?????

It should have been done under warranty if it occured. Get the repair history from the owner. You can go with the owner to his/her dealer and get a printout for free.

> I also ran across a thread about an "electronic box" that cost a whopping $5,000.00 to replace (dealer item only).......Honestly, in these economic times, I do not want to bring a "money pit" into my life.....

There are four electronics parts that are an issue. The first is the module security module that "approves" the key. There are a limited number of keys that can be activated in the early models (8 if I remember correctly) and once you reach that number you have to buy a new module that is only available from the dealer and can only be activated by the dealer. The electronic portion of the key fob so far lasts forever unless physically damaged. I've even left them and the pants where they got washed with no damage. As long as the current owner has only activated a few keys you should be fine. If s/he is nearing the limit I would not purchase unless you have a, well, $5k discount.

The second issue is hooking up jumper cables the wrong way (positive -> negative and vice versa). This can fry a lot of expensive parts.

The third issue is spilling a drink down into the insides of the center console. There are electronics in there that are not water tight.

The last issue is the ???? plate in the transmission. These have gone bad. But the total repair is under $1,000 and appears to be a one time item. It isn't common but does occur and should be noted if one day your transmission fails. Instead of a $2,800 repair it could be less than $1,000 at an honest shop.

The last item is really the only thing that I would consider a "gotcha" as the others are all under the control of the owner.

>(I was an ASE Certified mechanic for a little more than a decade from 1987-1999, though never a Benz tech) so I'm wondering if my skills would save me any huge repair costs on an ML class

Yes! The repairs are for the most part very simple. This is IMO the easiest vehicle in our fleet which consists of domestics and Japanese in addition to the MB.

> but a $5,000 part would be the kiss of death for me!

Other than the issues mentioned above the electronics appear to be quite robust. Other than that transmission issue I've read of darn few problems that were actual part failures and not caused by the owner. This is not to say that there haven't been a lot of parts changed out. There have. But if you read the case histories you'll find that it is the dealer either doing "guess and replace" or not taking the time to diagnose the actual cause which is often a cheap and quick solution. One problem that does occur is if the seals on the harness connections fail or water starts dripping on the part corrosion at the connection can cause an apparent failure. But the actual solution is to just clean the connection and make sure that it is water tight in the future. ABS systems and the connection to the transmission are the general culprits here.

et1123 · #11 01-03-2009, 01:20 PM

I just purchased a 1999 ML320 with 80k on it for 8300$. It is in mint condition will replace my 1988 300E Money pit very nicely. I would say you are getting a great deal and I would jump on it if I had your opportunity.

husk · #12 01-03-2009, 03:27 PM

The ML is a bigger money pit than the w124. Those cars are built very poorly

Gene Horr · #13 01-05-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husk

The ML is a bigger money pit than the w124. Those cars are built very poorly

In what manner? Other than the exhaust welds name one issue that has anything to do with build quality? In fact the concensus is that they construction quality is extremely high. And shall we mention the $1,000 you need to spend on the W124 every few years to replace with wiring harness that dissolves? Or the 6 cylinder diesel engine that won't last 100k miles? Or ....

The problems except for the cat welds all fall into the bad engineering category. And most of the bad engineering was fixed early on. Once the W123 gets past the 60k mile "break in" where all of the problems occur if they were fixed correctly none of the expensive issues have a history of returning. The ongoing maintenance can be excessive but tend to be very cheap and easy fixes such as the brake light switch or the CkPS.

Now if you choose to take your vehicle to a dishonest repair shop of course you can wind up spending a lot of money in unnecessary repairs. But this is true of any vehicle.

One issue that should be stressed though is that you are looking at a completely different animal than your light sedan. This is not even the same unibody oversized cars that are called SUVs. This is a light truck designed for moderately severe off road use. Even with the 4 wheel independent suspension and no axles it is going to ride like, well, an off road truck. Handling and ride comfort is superb for a truck but still truck-like.

itb76 · #14 01-05-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by husk

The ML is a bigger money pit than the w124. Those cars are built very poorly

I'd say it's built like a brick *****house actually. Ours has not been as reliable as a Toyota (is supposed to be; I've never had one), but it's really not been a money pit either. It needs some maintenance now and then, but at 185,000 miles it still drives the same as the day we bought it. Granted we bought it two years old with 60K on it, but still.

So far I have been able to do all my own work.

husk · #15 01-06-2009, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene Horr

In what manner? Other than the exhaust welds name one issue that has anything to do with build quality? In fact the concensus is that they construction quality is extremely high. And shall we mention the $1,000 you need to spend on the W124 every few years to replace with wiring harness that dissolves? Or the 6 cylinder diesel engine that won't last 100k miles? Or ....

The problems except for the cat welds all fall into the bad engineering category. And most of the bad engineering was fixed early on. Once the W123 gets past the 60k mile "break in" where all of the problems occur if they were fixed correctly none of the expensive issues have a history of returning. The ongoing maintenance can be excessive but tend to be very cheap and easy fixes such as the brake light switch or the CkPS.

Now if you choose to take your vehicle to a dishonest repair shop of course you can wind up spending a lot of money in unnecessary repairs. But this is true of any vehicle.

One issue that should be stressed though is that you are looking at a completely different animal than your light sedan. This is not even the same unibody oversized cars that are called SUVs. This is a light truck designed for moderately severe off road use. Even with the 4 wheel independent suspension and no axles it is going to ride like, well, an off road truck. Handling and ride comfort is superb for a truck but still truck-like.

$1000 that needs to be spent on a wiring harness every year? that is a bold faced lie, 6 Cylinder diesel engine that won't last 100k miles?!?!?! are you talking about the rod bender in the W126 and W140's? Get your facts straight buddy....