ML350 3.5L Balance Shaft Failure - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Zeus · #16 03-19-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILUVMILS

I've got two at my shop right now, an ML and an R Class. It looks like two of my guys will be busy for the next few days.

They're both out of warranty, but I'm sure MB will help out.

My tech was telling me about a colleague in LA (Benz tech) who said this repair was helping keep the dealership afloat with sales down! Lol...probably a bit of hyperbole, but there is likely some truth to it!

ILUVMILS - In your opinion as a tech, can the engine really be put back together as well as factory, assuming the tech working on it is experienced and competent? Just curious.

Johnhef · #17 03-19-2010, 10:06 PM

The only ones MB hasn't helped out on at our place have been Carmax vehicles.

ILUVMILS · #18 03-20-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

....ILUVMILS - In your opinion as a tech, can the engine really be put back together as well as factory, assuming the tech working on it is experienced and competent? Just curious.

Yeah, we've been doing them for a couple of years now with no problems. It's really not that big a deal when you get right down to it. Of course, some guys like doing engine work, while others would rather replace an evaporator, or a windshield, etc. For this reason, less than half the balance shaft jobs in my shop are done by the tech who makes the original diagnosis.

Zeus · #19 03-21-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILUVMILS

Yeah, we've been doing them for a couple of years now with no problems. It's really not that big a deal when you get right down to it. Of course, some guys like doing engine work, while others would rather replace an evaporator, or a windshield, etc. For this reason, less than half the balance shaft jobs in my shop are done by the tech who makes the original diagnosis.

Good to know, thanks for sharing.

That seems to be the same at my dealer's shop. The senior tech did my engine and another younger tech replaced a wiring harness and a DVD screen for the rear headrest entertainment unit.

When I went in to check on the progress, the engine was out and I was immediately impressed with how neat and organised all the disassembled parts were. The tech was obviously quite fastidious, which I appreciated and thanked him for.

Cheers,
C.

billtinvegas · #20 03-29-2010, 11:06 PM

My CEL had come on only once before and I limped to the MB dealer where I removed and resealed the gas cap and the car started right away with no problems. The Service Advisor took the car in to check for codes and came back saying that it didn't show anything. That was three months ago

Last Thursday driving on freeway at the end of a 150 mile trip the CEL came on and engine appeared to go into "limp" mode. As I decelerated and moved to right shoulder a crunching sound and LOTS of white smoke out the back. As I came to a stop and the smoke cleared I could see an oil slick marking my trail from where I heard the crunch.

The car has 89M miles and MB says they can't help - the dealer says it will be near $20M to replace the engine! The dealer has done all recommended service at the recommended intervals. This was my first MB and I didn't buy the extended warranty.

I have asked for the error codes and if its the dreaded 1200 or 1208 do you think that the balance shaft gears being worn could have caused this?

mbdoc · #21 03-30-2010, 08:13 AM

Run from that dealer!

I'm sure you can get a good used engine installed for less than 1/3 of that quote.

Maggz23 · #22 10-21-2010, 10:30 AM

Just wanted to share my story as it is only beginning now.

About two weeks ago, my 2006 ML350 i had the check engine light coming on and off intermittently as i would drive. Sometimes for days at a time i would not see it on at all. Other times, it would remain on for days at a time.

Finally i figured i should get it checked, my friend who owns a general garage scanned it for me, i could swear he said it was a code in the 60's and it had something to do with the engine management system and timing belt.(is he said it was code 1200 thats much different then 60 so im sure i would remember something in the thousands then 60). But thats not the point.

He said since the light was intermittent that it could just be a sensor. But to go to MB as they would know better and have a much better scanner then his. So i did. I brought it in yesterday, the call i got back was not what i was hoping for. They told me it was the balance shaft sprocket which requires a full engine removal and repair. I quickly got skeptical since i was trying to understand how from an engine code they new my whole engine needed to be torn down and redone. Have car management systems become so advanced these things are known now without even seeing the sprocket in question?

They did offer that since the car was at 88,000KM's (not miles as im in Canada, 88k km's is about 54,600miles for all you Americans) and it was just out of warranty (in Canada the warranty expired at 80,000Km's) they would contact MB Canada and see if there is some kind of goodwill or something that could be done here. They would not let me drive the car, or at least highly suggested i did not.

So after the phone call from MB, i went to Google and searched, finding this thread and many others like it. Seeing this is a reoccurring problem on these cars i felt kind of bad since before buying it only 7months ago i did as much research on it as i could and thought it was a dependable machine. That getting it at 74,000kms it was still under warranty so if i had any issues i could get it repaired so it would be a great buy. If i would have seen any details on this problem i might have chosen another model or brand. But now im stuck.

I am still hoping maybe my friends scanner had the right code at 60(ish) and the MB is either bluffing or made an error on the code diagnosis. Neither of those two possibilities i am thinking are likely, but i am still praying as i do not have the $5,000 it will take to repair this problem without any MB help.

Well im going to call MB this morning looking for the engine code they got when they scanned it, but they could always just "tell" me it was 1200 even if it wasnt. I am a very skeptical and conspiracy thinking person. I guess just me being safe and want to make sure i am not taken "for a ride". I enjoy doing my own research, understanding the problem and coming to my own conclusion what needs to be done.

That being said; i guess the first part would be to better understand what parts/engine my car is. Could someone help explain to me where i could get this inormation? I have a 2006 ML350 (canadian version). Would the engine model be detialed on the door panel stickers?

I also found, thanks to the link online, the MB Star Bulletin S-B-03.30/08i which details this problem in detail. According to that there is 3 possible situations. #3 not likely as it asks for leaking oil and i did not have this. So situation #2 and #1 are what it likely is. #1 being the Balance sproket and #2 being a solonoid (praying for lol ). But either way, to understand which it is, i need the engine code and the model to even begin to understand what is happening.

I will update with information, but anyones suggestions or ideas would greatly be appreciated. Especially if it is how could i "encourage" MB to give goodwill or even warranty this repair when i am not under warranty. Some more history on this car is that even though i bought it privately, the maintenance manual has always been stamped and updated by MB dealers for all the maintenance. so it has always been well up kept. Just hoping that might help me a little in this.

Thank again for all your advise.....

ILUVMILS · #23 10-21-2010, 12:20 PM

Your skepticism is totally understandable. I would feel the same way if I were you.

The bottom line is, if you've got the 1200/1208 fault codes the problem can't be caused by faulty, or leaking solenoids. You've got a problem with the balance shaft. If you've serviced the vehicle at the dealer there's an excellent chance that MB will help you out. Good luck

jc300e · #24 10-21-2010, 02:05 PM

Maggz23: Sorry to hear about the situation. I do not know specific Engine Numbers and runs that are effected nor do I no the error codes. They are listed on my repair bill so I can look those up later....
I am now 15K post Balance Chaft Sprocket repair.. The engine is perfect... No noise, leaks, etc... I have developed suspension noises that have needed attention... I suspect that the engine removal procedure disturbs the front end and upon reinstall, various suspension bushings, bumpers and seals get stressed. Each time, the dealer has taken care of them.
The codes I recieved were not sophisticated enough to tell the tech exactly what was failing. It was symptomatic. The cam position sensors were getting covered in the metal shavings fro mthe sprocket. That was throwing the code. the procedure for diagnosing the problem deal with exposing the cam sensors to visually inspect for metal contamination and possible an oil drain to look for excess metal in the oil pan. Mine had both.
During my repair, they repalced everything that could have been damaged by the metal particles.
NOTE - after re-assembly they run 2 cycles of minarl oil through the engine to rid the system of excess metal. then they fill with standard synth. I changed my oil approx 5K after the service and found metal glistening in the drain pan. I've since changed the oil again and found it to be completely clear of observable metal. My tech informed me that what I saw was typical following the next oil change.
I was covered under warranty. If I was not, the repair would have been roughly $5400 US. I have heard that, without a waranty, MB is comping 50% of the total bill.
Good luck

Maggz23 · #25 10-22-2010, 11:24 AM

OMG, Hi, WOW,

There are not enough emoticons on this site that i could put happy faces. I got a reply after 36hrs from MB concerning my above post on the possibility that MB Canada would do a post Goodwill Warranty for the Balance shaft replacement.

This morning i got that call. I was preparing myself for a fight, for negotiations, for everything. Then the consultant said "MB Canada will pass the job completely under a goodwill Warranty and cover your complete job, it will although take a week so youll have to be patient but well get your truck back to you". I was speechless. I dont know if this has anything to do with the recent Class Action suit filed in the states that MB Canada is quickly starting to step up and cover these repairs? Although it would surprise me a company moving so quickly on such expensive decisions.

But it is great news. I still feel very bad for everyone out there that had to already pay for one, or might in the future. My only suggestion is dont let them get away with this free and make you pay. Fight it, as i am proof that they will do it. I just hope this is a continuing trend at MB from now on that they will stand up and cover this repair.

Apart from that, now that they will strip my engine out, could anyone please suggest what other parts they should check while the engine is out that they could repair easy at this time? Like oil pumps, water pumps? What else should i specifically ask them to check out and maybe replace (even if only partly worn) since my engine is out already? saving me the possible future need to pull engine out to fix some other part?

Thank you all very much for you suggestions, support and great information on this site. Although i did not need the "ammunition" i was prepared and i also learnt alot.

Thanks

jcyuhn · #26 10-22-2010, 01:05 PM

I know this is straying a bit off topic, but why do the V8 engines have balance shafts? I understand they are required for 90 degree V6 engines, and almost every V6 has one. Buy why does it even exist on the V8 models?

ILUVMILS · #27 10-23-2010, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggz23

..........Apart from that, now that they will strip my engine out, could anyone please suggest what other parts they should check while the engine is out that they could repair easy at this time? Like oil pumps, water pumps? What else should i specifically ask them to check out and maybe replace (even if only partly worn) since my engine is out already? saving me the possible future need to pull engine out to fix some other part?..........

Your dealer will follow the guidelines concerning parts replacement as dictated in the work instructions for the job. This includes replacement of the oil pump, all of the camshaft solenoids, and a couple of oil filters. Obviously, the relevant fluids will be included as well. Any requests you make for additional inspections, parts replacement, etc. will be at your expense. Don't drive yourself crazy over-thinking the whole thing. Let your dealer do their job, and enjoy your car when they're done.

Congratulations, and let us know how everything goes.

mbdoc · #28 10-25-2010, 08:38 AM

Just an idler shaft on the V8 engines, not for balance.

tdiferrari · #29 11-01-2010, 10:32 AM

Hi there, As an avid german car enthusiast and owner of 5 of them presently, I am quite amazed at the number of other German manufacturers with this issue. I owned a 2005 VW Passat TDi and the balance shaft is a well doumented failure in those engines, except that VW hasn't stepped up to the plate as Mercedes has in many situations. The Porsche Boxster till 03 had an intermediate shaft failure resulting in "catastrophic engine failure". I was quite shocked to learn that the MB models had that issue as well. We thought about about an 07 ML350 before settling on a GLK350, which I hope doesn't suffer the same fate. To those of you out there suffering, many others are in the same boat.

DeliveryValve · #30 11-01-2010, 06:51 PM

What is the expected cost of this fix if it's out of warranty? And how about many vehicles are affected here?

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