Sharing my recent European observations with my fellow Forumers - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pcmaher · #1 07-26-2004, 07:46 AM

Just got back from a European Vacation. The countries we visited were Iceland, Germany, Austria, Italy, and Czech Republic. Signage in Austria and Germany is great. They really do have the Tourist in mind. It’s very easy to find your way around. Italy and the Czech Republic are quite a bit different. For example, it took us 45 minutes to get out of Venice. At one point, there were three different signs for our destination, all pointing in different directions!

Owning a 1995 S600, I was naturally keeping my eyes peeled for W140’s on this trip. I saw relatively few, and was disappointed. I see far more around the Chicago area. I saw only one confirmed V12 W140, in Iceland of all places, no others spotted during the entire trip. I can’t be entirely sure, because many vehicles have no designators on the trunk lid. You can’t tell what size engine they have. I was very surprised at the amount of diesels. They outnumber gas cars in some places. My cousin has a 1994 BMW 5 series with a 2.5 liter (I think that was correct) diesel in it. Stick shift, no A/C, and the rear windows are crank operated! Many of the MB’s I saw had engines that are not available here in the States. Lots of E classes with 2.0 liter engines.

For my friend bdonkersgoed…headlights on all European W140’s I saw are exactly like the ones on my W140. Did not see any lenses without “ribbing”.

Rented a VW Polo with stick in Iceland. Overall a decent little car, but the defroster didn’t work at all. Not good in a humid and cool environment. We got lost, and spent some very stressful hours on roads where a 4 x4 would have been far more appropriate. The bottom kept scraping the middle ridge of these volcanic rock roads because we didn’t have enough ground clearance. My sphincter was in continuous-clench mode due to the repeated scraping. Finally found our way back to paved roads. The Icelanders like to go off-roading. They especially like the big Toyota 4 x4's with turbo diesels and huge balloon tires. When one of these roars by, there isn’t much room left over for another car. I have to say I was amazed at the gas mileage of this VW. In fact, I thought the gauge was broken and stuck on full. The needle didn’t budge for a long time. I thought we were going to be stranded on one of those forsaken roads with no gas. Turns out this car gets around 50 mpg. I’m not used to this…I can almost see my fuel gage moving toward empty during driving.

Down in Austria, I was tooling along at 140 kmh in an Opel Astra Station Wagon (I had pushed it to 165kmh in Germany, but that was very uncomfortable with 4 people and lots of luggage. The car was on the hairy edge, so 140 kmh was the comfort limit). The Opel was a disappointment. We had originally reserved a brand new E class, and I was really looking forward to wringing it out on the Autobahn. I later found out that the Rental Company would not insure MB’s for travel in Italy and the Czech Republic. The Opel was the only vehicle covered for travel in those countries. After driving it, I can see why. No one would want to steal this thing. Anyway, we’re doing 140 kmh in Austria, and we are passing everyone. Subconsciously I’m wondering what the hell is going on. We can’t possibly have the fastest car around. I eventually spot a Porsche Carrera coming up slowly behind us. He’s moving “slow”, maybe 150 kmh. I’m thinking this is a shame, a beautiful speed machine like that and he’s barely passing an Opel station Wagon! NEWS FLASH! There is a speed limit in Austria!! The limit is 130 kmh. I discovered this later, and at that time finally realized why the Porsche was traveling so slowly.

MB provides many different vehicles in Europe, far more than in the US. Buses, trucks, V class vans, A class cars, and I think they make the Smart Car (that thing is tiny…I would never drive in one of those). The big trucks are absolutely beautiful. I wonder why we don’t see them here?

I think that there is a mistaken belief that there is no speed limit on the German Autobahns. There are speed limits in Germany in many places, but some stretches of Autobahn are not speed-limited. The fastest cars / drivers I saw were Audi, BMW, and VW of all things! Station Wagon VW’s! Saw some new E class going pretty fast, but the BMW’s were blowing past like I was standing still. The fastest vehicle I saw was a brand new 645 BMW. Good God, he had to be doing 150 mph…a beautiful sight to behold. The sound these vehicles make going that fast is also incredible. To my European Brothers and Sisters owning MB’s…this was embarrassing! These cars should be moving over for us! Come on, let’s turn this around and make sure those Audi’s, BMW’s, and definitely VW station wagons see your high beams flashing 3 feet off their bumpers! I’m counting on you to rightfully reclaim the Speed Crown!

It was really something to watch the traffic on the three lane Autobahn. These people drive like they're waltzing together. There is deliberation, cooperation, and an uncanny ability to sense what the other driver will do in the next instant. It was so nice to see people moving over for faster drivers. There is no insult in moving over, it is simply the proper ettiquette over there (this was in total contrast to the AS@HOL$ in the left lane doing 70 mph on 94 East when I was coming home. He didn't budge, so I had to pass him on the right).

Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed my rambling to some extent. I would be interested to hear about other people's experiences in Europe as well, and I would also like to hear from our European friends.

#2 07-26-2004, 08:00 AM

Thanks for taking the time to write such a great detailed informative piece!!!!

Quote:

My sphincter was in continuous-clench mode due to the repeated scraping.

Boy someone could take that one out of context

Eberhard Weilke · #3 07-27-2004, 03:17 PM

Most of the W 140 got exported to the east, mostly Russia.

Kind regards
Eberhard

TX76513 · #4 07-27-2004, 03:22 PM

Ahh Iceland! Hopefully I can visit there oneday. Thanks for sharing.

Vronsky · #5 07-28-2004, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pcmaher
Just got back from a European Vacation. The countries we visited were Iceland, Germany, Austria, Italy, and Czech Republic. Signage in Austria and Germany is great. They really do have the Tourist in mind. It’s very easy to find your way around. Italy and the Czech Republic are quite a bit different. For example, it took us 45 minutes to get out of Venice. At one point, there were three different signs for our destination, all pointing in different directions!

Ah, Venice: who wants to leave that place anyway...
Some trip you made. Didn't do France and the UK (=righthand driving)? Sorry you missed driving the Boulevard Peripherique and Place d'Etoile in Paris: exhilirating.

Owning a 1995 S600, I was naturally keeping my eyes peeled for W140’s on this trip. I saw relatively few, and was disappointed. I see far more around the Chicago area. I saw only one confirmed V12 W140, in Iceland of all places, no others spotted during the entire trip. I can’t be entirely sure, because many vehicles have no designators on the trunk lid. You can’t tell what size engine they have. I was very surprised at the amount of diesels. They outnumber gas cars in some places. My cousin has a 1994 BMW 5 series with a 2.5 liter (I think that was correct) diesel in it. Stick shift, no A/C, and the rear windows are crank operated! Many of the MB’s I saw had engines that are not available here in the States. Lots of E classes with 2.0 liter engines.

Really big engines are a bit rare in Europe (V6 is about it), and things like AC and electric windows have become standard only recently. Diesel is very popular here these days, especially since the introduction of direct injection engines (TDI, CDI) which has made them just as quick as petrol engines with far better fuel economy (FYI, MB over here traditionally has a diesel engine, very different from the US).

[...]
Down in Austria, I was tooling along at 140 kmh in an Opel Astra Station Wagon (I had pushed it to 165kmh in Germany, but that was very uncomfortable with 4 people and lots of luggage. The car was on the hairy edge, so 140 kmh was the comfort limit). The Opel was a disappointment. We had originally reserved a brand new E class, and I was really looking forward to wringing it out on the Autobahn. I later found out that the Rental Company would not insure MB’s for travel in Italy and the Czech Republic. The Opel was the only vehicle covered for travel in those countries. After driving it, I can see why. No one would want to steal this thing. Anyway, we’re doing 140 kmh in Austria, and we are passing everyone. Subconsciously I’m wondering what the hell is going on. We can’t possibly have the fastest car around. I eventually spot a Porsche Carrera coming up slowly behind us. He’s moving “slow”, maybe 150 kmh. I’m thinking this is a shame, a beautiful speed machine like that and he’s barely passing an Opel station Wagon! NEWS FLASH! There is a speed limit in Austria!! The limit is 130 kmh. I discovered this later, and at that time finally realized why the Porsche was traveling so slowly.

Yep, authorities here have discovered that speeding camera's generate very nice extra revenues, especially at places where higher speeds are no prob at all, like the Autobahn. BUT, if you drive a foreign car, camera tickets cannot be charged to other countries, so foreigners can speed whatever they want (guess authorities will find a solution for that soon aswell). Unless you are caught in the act by the police, and you have to pay cash or leave your car behind...

MB provides many different vehicles in Europe, far more than in the US. Buses, trucks, V class vans, A class cars, and I think they make the Smart Car (that thing is tiny…I would never drive in one of those). The big trucks are absolutely beautiful. I wonder why we don’t see them here?

The kind of models that MB is providing lately is downright disgraceful. Ever seen/heard of a model called 'Vaneo'? I guess that MB tries to gain a bigger share of the car market, but it sure it loosing its image of limousine and power cars. Audi and BMW are much more popular now, and rightly so!
[b]
I think that there is a mistaken belief that there is no speed limit on the German Autobahns. There are speed limits in Germany in many places, but some stretches of Autobahn are not speed-limited. The fastest cars / drivers I saw were Audi, BMW, and VW of all things! Station Wagon VW’s! Saw some new E class going pretty fast, but the BMW’s were blowing past like I was standing still. The fastest vehicle I saw was a brand new 645 BMW. Good God, he had to be doing 150 mph…a beautiful sight to behold. The sound these vehicles make going that fast is also incredible. To my European Brothers and Sisters owning MB’s…this was embarrassing! These cars should be moving over for us! Come on, let’s turn this around and make sure those Audi’s, BMW’s, and definitely VW station wagons see your high beams flashing 3 feet off their bumpers! I’m counting on you to rightfully reclaim the Speed Crown!

I know, I know

Audi's and BMW's are fine, but these stationwagons are really humiliating.... the horror, the horror.
BTW, in Germany, and other countries to follow, there is a point-system whereby offenders get points for each offense, and when a certain amount is reached, the driver looses his/het license. If I compare speeds today with that of -lets say- ten years ago, speeds have gone down a bit. Or maybe its just me driving faster...
I know of stretches between between Nuremburg and Regensburg, and Karlsruhe and Basel where there is no speed limit (I believe). I remember doing speed contests there with other cars at 150 mph for miles and miles, until some 911 or AMG came up and blasted away. GREAT fun that was.

It was really something to watch the traffic on the three lane Autobahn. These people drive like they're waltzing together. There is deliberation, cooperation, and an uncanny ability to sense what the other driver will do in the next instant. It was so nice to see people moving over for faster drivers. There is no insult in moving over, it is simply the proper ettiquette over there (this was in total contrast to the AS@HOL$ in the left lane doing 70 mph on 94 East when I was coming home. He didn't budge, so I had to pass him on the right).

(I always dislike people doing that, whatever the circumstance, like driving through a red light.)
Proper etiquette, as you call it, is probably because traffic has become so dense nowadays, and people have accepted the fact that they must give and take to get around. Mind you, it's not always like you describe, plenty of AH's still around... Guess that's a universal problem.

Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed my rambling to some extent. I would be interested to hear about other people's experiences in Europe as well, and I would also like to hear from our European friends.

rickg · #6 07-28-2004, 10:31 AM

"Ever seen/heard of a model called 'Vaneo'? I"

Is that the same as the "Smart"? It's currently being imported into Canada, but we haven't got them here yet. Silly little car, but is gaining in popularity in Canada pretty fast. I actually wouldn't mind one for a get-to-work car

Vronsky · #7 07-28-2004, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickg
"Ever seen/heard of a model called 'Vaneo'? I"

Is that the same as the "Smart"? It's currently being imported into Canada, but we haven't got them here yet. Silly little car, but is gaining in popularity in Canada pretty fast. I actually wouldn't mind one for a get-to-work car

Nah, the Smart isn't an MB-car is it? The Vaneo is some sort of van-/MPV-/stationcar-type thing on wheels. The A-series is MB's idea of a small vehicle: another example of how they've completely lost track. And for the Smart: you have to be absolutely suicidal to step into one of those tins..., even hitting a bicycle will kill you.

rickg · #8 07-28-2004, 10:52 AM

It is and it isn't. It's built in Switzerland I think, under license from Mercedes. Supposedly Mercedes had/has a hand in the engineering, but does none of the manufacturing. www.mbcanada.com has a very active Smart forum if you want to know anything about these things. They're hot on them up there.

http://www.thesmart.co.uk/index.html

Vronsky · #9 07-28-2004, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickg
It is and it isn't. It's built in Switzerland I think, under license from Mercedes. Supposedly Mercedes had/has a hand in the engineering, but does none of the manufacturing. www.mbcanada.com has a very active Smart forum if you want to know anything about these things. They're hot on them up there.

http://www.thesmart.co.uk/index.html

Do you also have the Brabus roadster model

? (Not kidding!)

stevey · #10 07-28-2004, 12:03 PM

This post couldn't fail to make me smile...

the differences highlighted in Pcmaher's account illustrate perfectly the differences in our consumer cultures and you can see how the stereotypes we have of each other start up. The incredulity experienced by encountering a BMW without A/C, a manual 'box and (horror of horrors) a wind-up window!

So we perceive the average American as a fat, spoilt and lazy, and we Europeans (I'm British) are seen as slowly emerging from the stone age, in awe of indoor plumbing. None of which is true, of course.

The car thing is true, though. I'm only in my thirties but can clearly remember electric windows appearing as 'luxury' items on average cars (and then just in the front!). Our first taste of such exotica was a 1984 2.0 Austin Montego. How proud we were.

Even top-end cars such as BMWs and Mercedes have historically had very spartan standard specifications in the UK, for the customer to add as extras all the toys (an expensive business). This is excused by `the customer knowing what he does/doesn't want in a car' which is marketing crap for let's see what we can leave off and get away with. Being British, we swallow it.

You Americans, however, do not, and fair play to you. Electric everything from the fifties onwards. Why rough it, eh?

As for engine sizes, two litres upwards is considered 'big'. Purely because we don't have the distances (esp. in the UK) that a US driver will encounter. Also, and this is the real decisive factor, petrol is £0.81 (almost $1.50) a litre. This also accounts for the massive popularity of 50mpg diesel engines. I know you guys would rather die...

We are changing, though. V8s are much more common now in a lot of manufacturer's model ranges (and don't forget we make TVRs, Land Rovers, Jaguars, etc) and all the toys (A/C etc) are now becoming standard across the board. We just don't have the sunshine, you see...

You guys don't have the A-class? So you missed all the hysteria when a Swedish motoring journalist rolled one doing the `Elk Test' (an almost mandatory avoidance procedure in those parts), initiating a hasty redesign and a lot of red faces in Stuttgart.

A message from God to stick with what you know...

rickg · #11 07-28-2004, 12:13 PM

I think with a Smart, they do a "bounce test", not a crash test

"Let's see how well this thing bounces off this big brick wall at 100kmh"

But they supposedly do quite well in crash tests from what I've read. A very well designed monocoque body design I guess.

pcmaher · #12 07-28-2004, 12:27 PM

Dear stevey,

I remember as a child (over 30 years now) my first ride in a Mercedes. It was in Germany, and it was an E class taxi. I was amazed at the Spartan interior, and was very confused by it. Back in the States, a Mercedes was supposed to be the lap of luxury....yet here was this car with plastic interior and crank window handles! So, even to this day the accomodations are very different. I would be very surprised if there were any BMW's or MB's (at least within the last 10 years) that don't have A/C and power everything in the US market.

I realize youmade your comments as tongue-in-cheek, but your region's perception of the typical American may not be that far off. We are rapidly becoming the most obese people in the world. If one pays attention, you will notice many over-weight people in our society. This observation really became apparant to me during a trip to Ireland, Northern Ireland, and Scotland in 2001. I couldn't put my finger on it, but something was different as I people-watched over there. About 5 days into the trip, I saw a very heavy woman, and suddenly realized that she was the first obese person I saw during the trip! I saw several more later, but nowhere near the number as in the States. You don't seem to have the weight problem we have over here.

As far as the A class is concerned, the second I saw that thing, I knew it would roll in an emergency lane change, or similar manuever. No thanks!!

Eberhard Weilke · #13 07-28-2004, 06:01 PM

Well, lets clear some things up:

The Smart ist produced in France by MCC, a DaimlerChrysler company. They are actually pretty safe, since they have a very rigid safety cell. The drivetrain is a little nerve wrecking, since it has six gears, an automatic clutch and you can let it shift by itself or shift manualy. On hills, the car will roll backwards. Going forward, you are shaken back and fourth five times until you reach top speed. Pain in the neck...

The problem with the A-class was the swedish elk avoidance test. Several factors caused the A-class to get into the dangerous situation:

- the first models had a rather soft suspension setup for comfort. This setup combined with the rather high center of gravity made it rather easy to get the car of the wheels

- the A-class did have, like any other Mercedes, a rather fast responding power steering. Mercedes always took care of a pretty strong pump. Mercedes did after the accident in Sweden an demonstration to journalists and showed that the turning speed at the steering wheel was significantly faster on the A-class than at the contemporary VW Golf. With a slower steering system it would not have been possible to get the car into this situation.

It is true, that the introduction of the A-class almost became a desaster. With putting the production on hold, reengineering the suspension and putting ESP as standard system into the cars and some very brilliant PR-work Mercedes was able to turn the whole story around and to make the A-class a successstory.

The new A-class, the W 169 ist coming to the dealers soon. It is a very nice car and, so I got told, the interior and finish is far superior (and the guy who told me that should know, he engineered the interior -

)

The Vaneo is a different story. Citroen Berlingo, Peugeot Partner, Renault Kangoo became very successfull for small companies, as delivery vans, as postal trucks and as vehicle for young families.

So Mercedes decided to produce something for that market. They took the A-class and made a little van from it. The interior was done by the utility vehicle division, also the marketing. The price is ridicoulos compared to the french cars, the interior looks cheap in every aspect.

As far as I can see, most cars got sold to employees of DaimlerChrysler at huuuge discounts. Unlike the A-class, there will be no new Vaneo...

Kind regards
Eberhard

rickg · #14 07-28-2004, 06:04 PM

ahhh...thanks for the clarification.

Vronsky · #15 07-29-2004, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eberhard Weilke
Well, lets clear some things up:

The Smart ist produced in France by MCC, a DaimlerChrysler company. They are actually pretty safe, since they have a very rigid safety cell. The drivetrain is a little nerve wrecking, since it has six gears, an automatic clutch and you can let it shift by itself or shift manualy. On hills, the car will roll backwards. Going forward, you are shaken back and fourth five times until you reach top speed. Pain in the neck...

The problem with the A-class was the swedish elk avoidance test. Several factors caused the A-class to get into the dangerous situation:

- the first models had a rather soft suspension setup for comfort. This setup combined with the rather high center of gravity made it rather easy to get the car of the wheels

- the A-class did have, like any other Mercedes, a rather fast responding power steering. Mercedes always took care of a pretty strong pump. Mercedes did after the accident in Sweden an demonstration to journalists and showed that the turning speed at the steering wheel was significantly faster on the A-class than at the contemporary VW Golf. With a slower steering system it would not have been possible to get the car into this situation.

It is true, that the introduction of the A-class almost became a desaster. With putting the production on hold, reengineering the suspension and putting ESP as standard system into the cars and some very brilliant PR-work Mercedes was able to turn the whole story around and to make the A-class a successstory.

The new A-class, the W 169 ist coming to the dealers soon. It is a very nice car and, so I got told, the interior and finish is far superior (and the guy who told me that should know, he engineered the interior - )

The Vaneo is a different story. Citroen Berlingo, Peugeot Partner, Renault Kangoo became very successfull for small companies, as delivery vans, as postal trucks and as vehicle for young families.

So Mercedes decided to produce something for that market. They took the A-class and made a little van from it. The interior was done by the utility vehicle division, also the marketing. The price is ridicoulos compared to the french cars, the interior looks cheap in every aspect.

As far as I can see, most cars got sold to employees of DaimlerChrysler at huuuge discounts. Unlike the A-class, there will be no new Vaneo...

Kind regards
Eberhard

There's hope for MB still, better late than never: