MB to do away with free maintenance during warranty - Scathing Editorial! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Gilly · #16 09-10-2004, 05:25 PM

As you may have guessed, i disagree with most if not all of what's being said here.
Let me handle the technical part first, maybe that's all I'll care to comment on......NAH!
On the trap oxidizer campaign you're all dead wrong! The trap oxidizer had a service life, I'm sorry the figure escapes me now, possibly every 30,000 miles it was required to be replaced. THEN someone came up with basically a catalytic converter (I don't think they called it that though, i think they called it an "oxidation catalyzer", something like that, and suddenly it became cheaper for MB to retrofit these new pipes in there (even though they had to buy whole exhaust systems and some turbos. You have to remember the work was at Mercedes expense, and Ma Benz sure don't pay retail. They don't even pay wholesale!). I believe MB had to pay to have these trap oxidizers humming until the car was out of emission warranty (7/70?, something like that). So that's where that came from. MB could have elected to keep the trap oxidizer replaced if they wanted to.
Now, I'm no big fan of the way things are running at MB. But I sure don't see where them dropping Maintenance Commitment is the death knell of MB, come on! The customer ultimately PAID for everything done to the car. You are making it sound like in 2005 there will be NO warranty!! The FSS services can be calculated fairly closely, so MB knows/knew how much the parts will cost and also the labor. Some things weren't included, as already mentioned, that stuff is generally paid for by the owner or maybe occasionally there will be a warranty claim paid for something like squeaky pads, etc, but not much.
Anyways, MB had the services built in to the price of the car, I can guarantee you that. Nothing dumber than someone not utilizing the "free" FSS services, it's already paid for (ya DUMMY!) by the OWNER!
What WILL be interesting to see is if a similar 2005 will be lower in price than an 04. If all else is the same it better come down! Unless this is a way to keep from raising prices in 05, that's a possibility I suppose.
Now, what I have also been told is that FSS is also going bye-bye in 05. That is, the actual calculation in the instrument panel is no more. The "new" customer-pay set up in 05 is generally supposed to be done every 13,000 miles (no flexibility like FSS), except some models will be 10,000, I forget which ones he said, I think V8's and V12's is what he said.
So, say what you will about Juergen and Juergen, I'm not standing up for them, but to attach the shelving of Maintenance Commitment to "a big problem at MB", or suggesting that MB is "losing it" or is somehow degrading the marque because of "THIS" is BS. The owners will just be paying one service at a time, instead of upfront with the purchase of the car, which somehow seems "more correct"; why let MB have the money up front? Unless you think the prices will be going way up in the next 4 years.

Gilly

DslBnz · #17 09-10-2004, 05:37 PM

Quite frankly, I don't hold the management of MB in high regards anymore, since it was their idea to take over the floundering Chrysler Corp. in the first place.

The only Chrysler car that sold well is the 300 series which was built and concieved by the very person they kicked off the board; Wolfgang.

Why can't MB offer simple oil changes and stand behind their product? What they are saying is that they have no FAITH in what they're rolling off the assembly line! If they have problems, let them show the public they mean business by EXTENDING the warranty like MOST manufacturer's HAVE been doing as of late.

If they HAVE minimal problems, then the extended warranty would cost them little.

Gilly · #18 09-10-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

If they HAVE minimal problems, then the extended warranty would cost them little.

THIS is my point: There is no such thing as a free lunch.
IF they extend the warranty, the price will come up. They will calculate some sort of figure which will hopefully cover on average what it'll cost to extend the warranty and they'll add it to every car. Like most things at ALL the manufacturers these days, it's the accountants that call the shots. Also one has to realize that alot of what goes on here in the US is decided by MBUSA, not DaimlerChrysler. I can GUARANTEE you that MBUSA decided to drop Maintenance Commitment. THEY decide how the cars are marketed, THEY decide which frivolous little option they want to have on the cars, THEY decide they are going to extend the warranty. WHY don't they/didn't they have Maintenance Commitment in Canada? MB Canada doesn't WANT it. They could have it, then the price would be higher.

Gilly

blackmercedes · #19 09-10-2004, 05:52 PM

We never got the "free" (it actually means "included in the price") maintenance here in Canuck-el-head land. We didn't miss it. Why?

Well, it only includes oil changes once the FSS reads "0". For most of us enthusiasts, we change our oil and filter much more often than that anyway. Not a big savings.

Who likes it? The folks that can't raise the hood. They march into the dealer when the FSS reads 0 and drop $1500 for a B service. Those folks could save. But, those of us that don't buy into the service-without-changing-fluids-and-filters scheme, we don't save much.

Also, for people like me, that actually enjoy doing most of my own service work, I lose out, since I paid for it up front.

I don't agree with Peter on the take that the dropping of the service included in the price is a death knell for MB, but I do agree with many of his statements concerning corporate arrogance.

MB's warranty coverage is not effected by this change.

I do think dropping the FSS is a good move, and getting back on track with proper schedules of oil/filter, etc. is a step in the right direction.

LK1 · #20 09-10-2004, 06:13 PM

The bottom line here is that Mercedes quality has ***** the bed. There is no question about it, just look at the Initial and Follow up quality surveys by JD Power. I also have friends at the MB dealership that are telling me the same thing. Getting rid of FSS in and of itself is no big deal, but it is indicative of Mercedes trend in not backing up their very expensive cars in the same manner that their competition is doing.
I was one of those people that turned my nose up at Lexus as a pretender when they first came out. Now I am older, wiser and most importantly over my need for a Mercedes. Yeah I like the way they drive and look, but even being knowledgeable about cars and fixing them doesn't negate my desire to work on my cars as infrequently as possible.
Every one of MB's competitors offers similar luxury and performance features plus a much better "ownership" experience. They simply don't project the arrogance that Mercedes does about their customer base.
If MB doesn't wake up, they can keep going down market with the wannabe Mercedes (C-Class hatchbacks)and kiss us all goodbye or they can focus on quality, quality, quality until they become a real competitor in the market again.

blackmercedes · #21 09-10-2004, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LK1

...If MB doesn't wake up, they can keep going down market with the wannabe Mercedes (C-Class hatchbacks)and kiss us all goodbye or they can focus on quality, quality, quality until they become a real competitor in the market again.

But don't Honda and Toyota produce high quality, well made, reliable cars priced at or below the CL230 hatch? While I question MB's introduction of the CL230 to the US market (where that are an exclusive luxury brand, unlike many places in the world) they should be able to bring the car to market with all the build quality of "lesser" (hahaha!) brands.

I think that Peter's comments about MB leaving the dyed-in-the-wool MB customer wanting are spot on. The values that had Mercedes topping the first JD Powers 3-year reliability and quality survey back in 1990 are the ones that appeal to the brand loyal customers today: quality, reliability, driving experience, and longevity.

But, with Chrysler bleeding billions off of MB's back, maybe they can't afford us anymore. Maybe they have to go for the fast buck and quick turnaround of high-profit low-cost cars. Call MB's national organization in your country. They don't care that you'll never buy another new car. They'll tell you about record sales and other blah-blah-blah. They don't think they need us. They've found new "leasing" customers that can't open the hood and only buy The Star to impress the neighbours that haven't come to the end of their Honda Accord leases.

Hatterasguy · #22 09-10-2004, 07:37 PM

All makes have problems, I was reading other forums about Ford Explorer problems, Suburu problems ect. Mercedes aren't that bad at least they are not burning threw wheel bearings and eating transmissions (Honda) and rear ends.

EuroCoupe · #23 09-10-2004, 07:48 PM

Gilly-
You do not truly buy into the "they will probably lower prices since they aren't offering the FSS" idea are you? No way in hell are they going to back off on price and write it out of the MSRP... they're trying to chip away at a poor bottom line. I watch countless '96+ MB owners at my father-in-law's shop carry on and on about poor build quality and how their W126 or W124 got them to welcome anything new MB had to offer. They're now in an electrical-shorting, sensor-failing, fuse-popping induced nightmare. My 2000 ML just crapped out on me today with electrical failures on the freeway, everything shut down... Sure many people have the "My car has been fine" story but just as many are wondering why their friggin' side mirror just fell off!!! (Wow, that was a great story earlier... mirror falling off, jeez.)

Gilly · #24 09-10-2004, 08:14 PM

I did sort of countermend that statement, here is a quote:

Quote:

What WILL be interesting to see is if a similar 2005 will be lower in price than an 04. If all else is the same it better come down! Unless this is a way to keep from raising prices in 05, that's a possibility I suppose.

So I am not saying it WILL, it will be interesting to see IF it does. OR maybe the price will stay the same, in other words they (MB) are saving by not having Maintenance Commitment, but not passing along the savings, so to speak. It is also inportant to note that I am in particular referring to "Maintenance Commitment", which was the plan where the maintenance was "free" (a better word would be "included") during the warranty period (5/50). FSS is also being dropped, but FSS was the feature the car had which calculated when the next service is due, it has nothing really to do with Maintenanve Commitment, other than the fact that the dealer, under warranty (Maintenance Commitment) was supposed to use the FSS indication to determine if the car was due for a maintenance service.

Other than that I am "fine" with your quality (or lack of) observations, I won't dispute they have problems.......

Gilly

blackmercedes · #25 09-10-2004, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

...and eating transmissions ...

Perhaps you should talk to one of the many many owners of 722.6 five speed automatics that is footing the bill for a new transmission.

Sure, other makes have their problems. But, it's how they deal with it. Honda is recalling all those models with the bad automatics. Mercedes has done no such thing. They just sit and hope you make it out of warranty so they don't have to foot the bill.

These things are measurable, and all the different measures have Mercedes falling from the top of the heap to the bottom of the barrel for quality. 99% of the glitches are caused by poor "gizmo" quality, but some are so out of character that it's ridiculous. Bad transmissions? Engine parts? (harmonic balancers) Sheesh.

Why should a Mercedes not only be as good as the competitors, but better? Price. In their segments, Mercedes tends to be the most expensive. In Canada, the $40K segment is packed with cars, including the TL, G35, 320/325, A4, Maxima, S40, S60, 9-3, and others. Mercedes is priced WAY at the top. A topped out G35 struggles to reach $50K, including AWD. A C320 4-matic equipped the same is nearly $70K. Back when W126's and W124's roamed the earth, you could see and feel the differences. Not any more. Way back when, most cars struggled to make 100K-miles and an MB lasted much, much, longer. A Mercedes was an "investment" and today it's just another car in the segment, and priced very high.

If I'm going to pay a premium for a Mercedes, I want something more than the cache. I want deadly reliability, impeccable build quality, incredible dealer service, and I want it to last a loooong time. And right now, that pricing is not 1% or 5% higher, it's more like 15%-25%.

Lexus nearly nuked MB into bankruptcy back in 1990, and they could come on with another assault with MB sitting at the bottom of the quality ratings. In Canada, the new E-Class is priced right along with the LS430, not the GS-series. With a new GS somewhere in the works, MB might be about to take a big hit.

In Canada, Infiniti has done some serious damage to C-Class sales. The G35 and G35X have been strong sellers. Mercedes dealers recently discounted C-Class cars by nearly $10,000 to try to move inventory. At $10K off, they were barely competitive. The new TL is WWD (Wrong Wheel Drive) but at $41K, it's $15-20K less than a comparable C-Class. Is the C320 made $20K better? Not a chance. A new M35/45 and GS330/430 just might hammer the W211 into the ground.

hookedon210s · #26 09-12-2004, 11:46 AM

I doubt seriously that MB will reduce the price of their vehicles as a result of excluding the "Maintenance Commitment" from the purchase price. Case in point: I recently read that MB has kept the option price of the integrated phone at $1600 for the E-class cars but now requires the buyer to purchase the handset separately. An effective price increase of $350-$450? Nice trick. I don't know for a fact if Teleaid was included as standard equipment for 2004 on the C-320 Sport but I see from the MB website that for 2005 it is an $800 option. Like most companies (have you taken a look at the steadily decreasing size of "half gallon" ice cream containers and roll paper products recently), MB is deleting content to keep prices "low"

Mark