So, this justifies jeering and harassing other people, and vandalizing their vehicles, burning them up on the dealership lot? Come on Z, freedom in this country is not "freedom for me and only those who think like me."

If you really want to effect change, find a way to get the 170 million people in this country into the voting booth on election day, and find a way to get people to ignore the propaganda spewed by both parties regarding third party candidates being a wasted vote. Otherwise, just do what YOU can do personally, and around your own home to minimize your own impact on the environment.

Whoa there bucko...I'm officially neutral about politically motivated property destruction. I neither condemn nor condone such actions. I'm merely pointing out that our individual choices do have consequences for others around us. In the big picture one A-hole driving a gluttonous road pig doesn't mean diddly to this nation's perverse addiction to petroleum, but it does represent an excellent metaphor for excess and myopia. If folks get PO'd about that metaphor and take matters into their own hands, then there are consequences for those choices as well.

You and I are in perfect agreement about the current state of electoral politics.

I couldn’t care less what anyone does as long as it doesn’t affect me. The SUV craze affects me, directly, in a variety of ways. This is why I hate them with such a passion.

First, the drivers cannot see anything. I had a Tahoe back into me at a red light. The moron was trying to read a sign in a parking lot and looked into his rearview mirror. He couldn’t see me right behind him but he saw a car ¼ mi back so he put it into reverse and stabbed the gas. He did $6000 damage to my car. Every year about 40 parents back over and kill their own children in their SUVs. I don’t know how many are simply injured. The average person shouldn’t be driving one but the average person is too stupid to know better. Truck drivers know they have to get out and walk behind their vehicle before they ever put it into reverse

Second, I can’t see around them, especially in my roadster. This creates a dangerous situation. Third, the drivers do not have training or proper mindset to drive a big truck. They drive them like regular cars causing numerous accidents and creating a dangerous situation on the road. They should have the same rules as the semi-tractors.

Third, most SUV owners try to intimidate other drivers. They think they are special. I had a woman drive around me in a snow storm using the cross traffic lanes in an intersection while all the traffic was at 4 mph. I was tempted to crash into her just to show her she can’t get away with it. But I didn’t because I have good enough judgment, at least compared to an SUV driver. Autoweek magazine did a survey and although the sedan drivers thought it is not normal to ever have an accident; SUV owners said they expect to have an accident every 3 years. They shouldn’t be driving a GEO Metro; they should be on the bus. It is pure ego to drive one. Every man I know who has a pickup is a contractor and every H2 owner I know is a 120 lb housewife. I guess you have to get your feeling of power somewhere. I hope my friends don’t run over their children. I got one of them to install the back-up camera.

The real way to make change is to make the EPA, CAFE and DOT laws for cars apply to SUVs. The big 3 would stop building them. It is they who fool you into thinking you want one. If people understood vehicle dynamics no one would buy one without the need. These housewives know nothing except what the TV shows them. The automakers make an extra $10,000 profit over a sedan. They love our ignorance. My wife wants one and I can’t let her buy one. I bought a BMW wagon instead. She still wants an SUV. She is brainwashed like the rest.

Is this a filibuster? Sorry for the rant.

I really like the Magnum Wagon. I am ready to trade my Mercedes and BMW Wagon on a new Magnum but then I wouldn't have anything to work on. My wife wants a Honda Passport. She thinks she needs the cargo and seating. That means minivan. (She doesn't like that). Seating in SUV's is awful because the floor is so high to get ground clearance; tall riders have their knees in their chests.

H2? Ridiculous...
 

We had one at our company.

The interior has the quality of a Chevrolet Chevalier rental car, the front chrome ist plastic but the most ridiculous feature is the height sensor at the rear axle, which ist installed inside of the wheel house. A few rocks, some mud and this funny little plastic thing will be gone.

I wonder who designed something stupid like that.

Kind regards
Eberhard

The fact that you don't unequivocally, unconditionally condemn such criminal acts is very telling.

"Politically motivated property destruction"???? That's just P.C.-speak for "terrorism". Those enviro-radicals are no different than any other radicals who blow up cars, buildings, planes, and people for their own political and/or religious reasons.

Folks can dislike SUVs all they want....I don't care much for most of them either....They can lobby against them, advertise their cause, write letters, e-mails, blogs, call their congressman, run for office....whatever variety of anti-SUV activism that tickles their fancy.....But when they start committing REAL CRIMES against person and/or property....They undermine their entire cause, and should be punished for thier actions just as any other criminal would be.

Mike

I see your point with some of the large American SUVs but branding all 4x4s under the same banner is a little bias.
You say the drivers cannot see anything? I find this strange as being higher gives me a better view of the surroundings. The argument that 40 parents back over and kill their own children each year is one I've heard numerous times. No one has yet been able to show me any real statistics for this, the same as nobody can provide statistics for bull bars killing people. I know of not one case (in the UK at least) where a bull bar was blamed for a death in an accident and the vehicle most involved in a child being crushed is in fact the School Bus!
You also comment on blocked view. What about Vans, Lorries, Buses and People carriers? A little patience goes a long way!
You say drivers do not have training or proper mindset, causing numerous accidents and creating a dangerous situation on the road. You could say that about any enthusiast’s vehicle be it a sports car, performance saloon, convertible roadster, a motor cycle or even a hot hatch!
It's said there's no need for SUVs which never go off road. Again the same thing could be said for any of the above. Why produce cars which can exceed the speed limit? Why don’t we just all sell our Mercedes and buy some cheap run around like a Saturn or a Kia? Well basically it’s because of choice and free will!
SUV drivers intimidate people? Can’t say I’ve ever intimidated anyone. I’ve heard people say the same about BMW and Mercedes drivers, can’t remember ever using one of those I’ve owned to intimidate either. I think you’ll find people feel intimidated by SUV not the other way round and if people are that nervous about other traffic maybe they shouldn’t be driving?
You mention EPA, CAFE and DOT laws etc. In the Euro NCAP tests under pedestrian safety only a handful of vehicles attained 3 stars for pedestrian safety. Guess what? A SUV was one of them, the Honda CRV - safer than over 90% of all other vehicles.
And when it comes to the CR-V and emissions, the 2.0 SE petrol CR-V has a lower CO2 emission and a better m.p.g. than a 2.0 Vauxhall Vectra. Any idea what a R107 500SL might be? :rolleyes:
So remember not all 4x4s and their owners are the same - PLEASE recognise this.

Ugly huh?
 

I just bought a Honda Element and people alwasy tell me it is the ugliest car they have ever seen and it also looks like a baby hummer. In reality the only offroad a Hummer will see is the landscaping it drives over when the cluesless driver backs out of his/her driveway. :)


PS-HI TLJ :)

...yes Mike, it's very telling isn't it? Notice upon re-read that I mention there are also consequences for those same said choices. Now go back to bed before that vein in your forehead explodes. Life's too short...

Of course there are consquences. What, you want extra credit for simply stating the obvious?! :rolleyes:

You openly admitted that you do NOT condemn such actions. So I stand by my comments.

Mike

But isn't there a larger issue here? There is nothing inherently right or wrong with a Hummer. It’s just another commodity. What I find creepy is how many hate mongers, even on this web site, who see Hummers as yet another focus of a seemingly endless desire, even a self-perceived need to “discuss” items, for no reason other than as an object of or exercise in hate. What can be so lacking in someone’s life that they would destroy a car or any of the other typical objects of hate? More to the point, why is hate such a growing rallying point amongst certain groups in our society? What can ever be gained by these hateful actings and lashings out?

...Google: oil war - climate change -- inflamed passions

...oh, was someone advocating violence? Well then, I condemn violence. There, I said it...violence is bad. Stay away from violence.

I wouldn't go so far as to destroy one, but, to me, the H2 is probably the single most blatant symbol of the current SUV craze. And, while I understand that people are allowed to get whatever they want, I still see the modern-day SUV's as an insult to the 4x4's of "old" that were and are actually, heaven forbid, used off-road. Heck, except for the Jeep Wrangler, thanks to the SUV craze, there aren't any serious 4x4's sold anymore, and the Jeep's borderline (except the new Rubicon series). I'm hoping that the new Dodge Power Wagon is a step back towards the "real" 4x4 off-road vehicles; the specs look rather impressive...but I'm not holding my breath.

H2's are junk, GM is just trying to cash in on the Hummer name. I refuse to tarnish the Hummer name by calling the H2 a Hummer. The H2 is a fat pos truck that people buy to feed their ego's. Don't even get me going about the H3.

Now the H1 is an awsome truck! If I had the money I would buy one for the winter in a second. :cool: Not to mention all of the off roading that one could do.

But I hate SUV's in general, sorry people you don't need a truck. A 4wd Audi, MB, BMW, Subaru wagon is better in the snow and can carry pretty much every thing an SUV can. What can you stick in those things anyway? Buy a pickup with an 8ft bed if you want to carry big stuff like drywall and plywood.