Liberalism and War - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

GermanStar · #1 01-03-2005, 04:07 PM

Why is it that the sensible concept of being opposed to war is considered liberal, and proponents of war are considered conservative? Since liberalism advocates progress/change and conservatism resists progress/change, the act of advocating war should be properly considered liberal, unless we live in state of perpetual warfare. A further point is the fact that the act of waging war is diametrically opposed to fiscal conservatism. What am I missing here?

boneheaddoctor · #2 01-03-2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStar

Why is it that the sensible concept of being opposed to war is considered liberal, and proponents of war are considered conservative? Since liberalism advocates progress/change and conservatism resists progress/change, the act of advocating war should be properly considered liberal, unless we live in state of perpetual warfare. A further point is the fact that the act of waging war is diametrically opposed to fiscal conservatism. What am I missing here?

Liberalism is a new way of calling socialism...it has nothing to do with progress.....in fact liberalism hinders progress.

Zeitgeist · #3 01-03-2005, 04:10 PM

Well, there ya have it...

Old300D · #4 01-03-2005, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Liberalism is a new way of calling socialism...it has nothing to do with progress.....in fact liberalism hinders progress.

Yeah! Just change the definitions of the words, problem solved.

boneheaddoctor · #5 01-03-2005, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old300D

Yeah! Just change the definitions of the words, problem solved.

Socialism IS liberalism ..................... Its the DNC command to resist any facts pointing this out.

That Guy · #6 01-03-2005, 04:22 PM

BHD,

Saying something is a fact does not make it so.
Something actually has to be factual in order to make it a fact. Calling your opinions factual does not make them fact.

GermanStar · #7 01-03-2005, 04:26 PM

Looks like bhd is right. I just looked it up.

lib·er·al
n.

a. A member of a Marxist-Leninist party.
b. A supporter of such a party or movement.
c. A Communard.
d. A radical viewed as a subversive or revolutionary.

In any case, what does that have to do with my original question?

rickg · #8 01-03-2005, 05:19 PM

Dunno. I think this falls into the catagory of "that's just the way it is."

That Guy · #9 01-03-2005, 05:21 PM

LOL.. GS.

Anyhow, apparently a liberal is a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets.

Doesn't sound a bit like socialism.
BHD,

I highly recommend that you understand what the words you are using mean. You seem to be confusing many of your words, such as liberal and fact among others. I understand your confusion if English is a second language for you and empathize since it is not a very easy language to learn, but you must understand how important it is to communicate effectively on these message boards.

MTI · #10 01-03-2005, 05:27 PM

It's not liberal=anti-war; conservative=pro-war. The Democrats got us into and kept us in Vietnam while conducting the "War on Poverty" and building "The Great Nation."

I think the phenomenom we're experiencing is the division created by the administration via the "either your with us or you're against us" rhetoric that made "patriotism" and "love of country" seemingly belong exclusively to the side that backed the administration. That was truly unfortunate and I hope we, as a country, can get past that.

mzsmbs · #11 01-03-2005, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GermanStar

Why is it that the sensible concept of being opposed to war is considered liberal, and proponents of war are considered conservative? Since liberalism advocates progress/change and conservatism resists progress/change, the act of advocating war should be properly considered liberal, unless we live in state of perpetual warfare. A further point is the fact that the act of waging war is diametrically opposed to fiscal conservatism. What am I missing here?

i think it's the duhh?!byah factor... otherwise known as the twilight zone.... i don't know anymore....

Botnst · #12 01-03-2005, 06:19 PM

I remember when I used to think I was a liberal. It was when liberals thought that all men were created equal and should be treated as equal in law and government. It was when the federal government was a necessary evil used to regulate and enforce trade and for national defense. It was when we were proud of the American experiment that had brought more freedom and liberty to more people on Earth than any other government in history. It was when private entrprise was recognized as having brought the highest standard of living to the most people in history. I remember when it was a good and noble thing to serve in the armed forces of the United States.

Then something weird happened in the 1960's. I watched liberalism change and thought I must have missed something very important. Because it became a creature of people who do not believe that laws should apply to all people equally but that there should be favored classes. It changed to thinking that a government program should be in place for every desire of man. It hated military service and the only government it liked was programs for redistribution of privately held wealth. I realised I must not be a liberal so I must be a conservative.

So I looked at conservatism. They had some of my ideals, but they were so enamoured of corproate management that they could not see any corporate excess, no mater how dangerous or unfair. They made mouth noises about smaller government but what they actually meant was smaller government except their favorite programs and initiatives. Yes, they liked the military services okay, but mainly to use as a cash cow for manufacture or weapons systems and adventures that were often not even wanted by the military.

What is left?

boneheaddoctor · #13 01-03-2005, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

BHD,

Saying something is a fact does not make it so.
Something actually has to be factual in order to make it a fact. Calling your opinions factual does not make them fact.

liberal values and liberal actions are the very same thing as communist ones.....Only difference is the Communists are not afraid to call it what it is.

The Liberals will go out of their way to convince you they are the opposite of what they really are. Need proof, just look at the last election and Kerrys campain...............objectively.

Liberals want redistribution of wealth.....forcibly.....same as communism.....they want everyone equally poor.