60's-70's GM FWD

[kott]

Totally unrelated to Mercedes, but this group seems to know or have seen a little bit of everything.....

Any experience/ knowledge about the reliability/ sturdiness of the FWD system that GM had in the Toronado and Eldorado in the early '70's? I'm being distracted by a '73 Eldo convertible...... (pause for laughter to subside)

Was the 500CID engine well-matched to the drivetrain, or is this system a disaster in the offing? Is it some sort of chain system? Was it used in any other application (commercial/ other cars)?

Who had a buddy in high school that owned an old one? Whose grandfather had one that never had a single problem? I'm looking for anyone's experience.....

I'm bad to be interested in big old cars, but have never considered one with FWD. A Sedan deVille with a 472 might do fine, but this Eldo has "eyes"....

No problem, or expensive proposition? Any input appreciated-

[kott]

Info on the web says that Cadillac was smart to let the Toro debut first with the system... to get the potential bugs out rather than risk the venerable Caddy name. So I'd figure they still had the mojo back then, not to mention 6 years of experience, not to mention it's a big-a$$ car that would need a sturdy system.

But, then you remember the V8-6-4, and the 4.1 aluminum bomb, and you wonder....

I figure regular parts are GM sturdy and cheap, and I've seen some prices on CV's and other system-specific stuff that weren't too pricey.

Lots of room under the hood, but interestingly it's mostly between the engine and the firewall!

[Larry Delor]

My folks had a '73 Eldorado - Triple black with Landau bars and the winged woman for the ornament. (Factory equip.)

The car was a magic carpet ride. Plenty of power and torque.

Downside? Mileage! Best I ever calculated was 11mpg Hwy.
One day on a long trip along a particularly boring stretch of I-94, I watched the gas gauge. I could actually see it move! (In spite of its 27.5 Gal tank)

Yeah...I'd buy it back if I could...but I would only be able to afford to drive it once in a blue moon.

Rust prone areas on this one, was at the bottom of the padded vynil top (it covered the back half of the roof - not the entire roof)

[BobK]

As a testament to the strenght of the driveline, I believe the olds system was used in GMC RVs in the 70's. Think I even have a dealer brochure from '77 that listed it.

[kott]

Is this a fun car that could be owned and enjoyed with some benign neglect?

Change the oil, let the trans leak a bit, check for floor pan rust ahead of time... it's a convertible, so the interior has seen better days, but it has held up bravely, for the most part. Seems to have all its parts, I don't care if the A/C works, or the thermometer on the side view mirror, or the ash tray light.... what else to worry about?

Of course, if the top motor goes south..... but I had a GM convert for 15 years in a GTO that never blinked an eyelash. Maybe my luck would continue-

[rickg]

Didn't "they" use that drivetrain for some of the big motorhomes back then? Seems I saw that somewhere.

Oops! w126 beat me to it.
Nevermind

[Larry Delor]

Yes, they did use the Toronado set up in their GMC fiberglass motorhomes.
My folks had one of those too.
Aside from the timing chain stretching (you could pinch to two sides together), the 455 (later they built them with 403's) performed quite well. We got about the same mileage with the GMC as we did with the Eldorado.
This particular GMC (Glacier) was a 26' model (originally they were 23's) and also had a propane conversion done on it. Mileage suffered slightly-thats about it. (0-60 in 22 secs with the 455)
They can still be bought today, and sell for much much more than I would ever pay for one. Their highlight is the air suspension. Back then it made the RV ride well, and even provided a limited leveling feature. However, the newer RV's have come a long way and ride better than the old GMC's. They also lacked any serious insulation - the only insulation we ever saw, was a 1'x1' patch near a water pipe in the bathroom. Forget taking them to the heat, as they came equipped with only a 4k Generator...not enough juice to power 2 A/C's, which is what you would need in that un-insulated fiberglass tube. Storage was also not the greatest. Because of the curved roof design, you had no upper corners in the overhead compartments - a good sized box of cereal wasn't going to fit. The Glacier we had also did not come with a true bed...instead it had two opposing bench seats that would fold down into a bed. Naturally this was taken out, and a queen sized bed was installed. There was a gap under the bed for canned goods or what-not, and the space between the old benches received an aux. 70 gal. gas tank. The RV was originally equipped with 2 25 gal tanks.

Our particular RV had a range of about 1000 miles with all tanks filled ( 2x25, 70, and the propane tank (which was replaced with a larger unit by the PO))

The biggest problem with the RV was vaporlock. It was so much of a problem with not only that RV but also with others (mostly the P30 chassis) that they even sent out GM people to conventions and had them hold workshops on how to eliminate/reduce vapor lock.)

There...now you know waaaay more than you wanted to know about GMC RV's.

[kott]

Darn- I sense a thread hijacking......

but that's okay, I got a lot of info from y'all, and I appreciate it.

However, no one mentioned the air suspension.....

[Larry Delor]

yeah... I guess I got carried away there...

But, hang on! The air suspension I wrote about related only to the rear of the RV, not to the Eldorado. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

[kott]

Before my medication wears off.... what're you asking for your 420?
Are there pics somewhere?

I had an '89 560- sold it a year ago. Have enjoyed not maintaining it within an inch of its life. had 92k on it. Was also a FL car- black with gray...nice.

[Southern]

I don't have any experience with an early 70's GM FWD, but my first car was a 79 Toronado with a 350 Quadrajet. This car was ahead of its time with the features and ride comfort. My only complaint was that the CV boots need replacement every 2 years. As my Toronado grew older the typical old age things started to happen, rubber seals, rear air shocks leaking. I wish they still made cars like that.

[Kuan]

Jay Leno has one. Saw it on TV last night.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-1966-Oldsmobile-Toronado-Jay-Leno.htm

[spartonboat1]

The early Toronado's, roughly 66-70 were overbuilt and had more and larger ball bearings in the CV joints...which lead to a long life.

The Toronado production was low enough in the early bodies, again roughly 66-70 that they were hand assembled on a special shorted assembly line in the Olds plant in Lansing, MI; that plant was just recently closed for all time.

The RV powertrains were literally obtained from the Toronado assy line, after the engine and transmission had been mounted to the frame. A cutting torch was utilized to cut the Toronado frame approximately in half, and the forward half/stub containing the engine, transmission, plus suspension, CV joints, and two wheels was removed and shipped to the RV plant intact. I do not know what was done to "pretty up" the cutoff end of the frame.

Long ago trivia from a former factory rat at GM.