Originally Posted by dmorrison

Watch a A320 the next time it lands in a cross wind. They have to pump the control stick, in aileron movement, to create the crosswind technique.

Originally Posted by dmorrison

Heres a few "non standerd landings"

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=229317&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20747-2W6OZ&WdsYXMg=Nve%20Puvan&QtODMg=Ubat%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29&ERDLTkt=Puvan%20-%20Ubat%20Xbat&ktODMp=1993&BP=0&WNEb25u=Qnely%20Punczna&xsIERvdWdsY=O-2450&MgTUQtODMgKE=Lrg%20nabgure%20aba-fgnaqneq%20ynaqvat%20ng%20Xnv%20Gnx.%20Guvf%20jnf%20gur%20svefg%20cvpgher%20V%20rire%20tbg%20choyvfu rq.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=19469&NEb25uZWxs=2002-04-14%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20YVXR%20%27Obrvat%20747%25%27%29%20NAQ%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Uba t%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29%27%29%20NAQ%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nve pensg%2Cnveyvar%2Ccynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencure%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepen sg_trarevp%2Cpa%2Cpbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%2B%22ynaqvat%22%27%20VA%20OBBYRNA%20ZBQR%29%29%20%20beq re%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=38&prev_id=247814&next_id=223246

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=047556&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20747-4...&WdsYXMg=Puvan%20Nveyvarf&QtODMg=Ubat%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29&ERDLTkt=Puvan%20-%20Ubat%20Xbat&ktODMp=Whar%201997&BP=0&WNEb25u=Fnzhry%20yb&xsIERvdWdsY=&MgTUQtODMgKE=Penml%20ynaqvat%20nf%20lbh%20pna%20frr%20fcbvyref%20naq%20gur%20gver%20genpx%20pyrneyl. %20Shyy%20senzr%20naq%20gnxra%20sebz%20Ornpba%20Uvyy%20jvgu%20800%20zz%20yraf.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=817601&NEb25uZWxs=1999-09-19%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20YVXR%20%27Obrvat%20747%25%27%29%20NAQ%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Uba t%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29%27%29%20NAQ%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nve pensg%2Cnveyvar%2Ccynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencure%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepen sg_trarevp%2Cpa%2Cpbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%2B%22ynaqvat%22%27%20VA%20OBBYRNA%20ZBQR%29%29%20%20beq re%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=90&prev_id=047761&next_id=NEXTID

Dave

Originally Posted by tangofox007

And all these years I thought it was "roll." I reckon I need to study up on them there erodynamik principuls.

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

That's just amazing. I've never seen anything that severe.

I don't see how the 747-200 ever could possibly align itself with the runway centerline without taking the gear right out.

The 747-400 look as though it dropped in the runway like a brick. Unbelievable that the airplane took that abuse with no damage.

Originally Posted by Jim Anderson

B52's don't have a problem with crosswind.

Originally Posted by dmorrison

We find 2 kinds of ex military pilots in the airline industry. And this is not always a hard and fast rule. Those who flew fighters and those who flew tranport aircraft or large bombers. Fighters are designed to land in a crab. Their gear is designed for the sideload and it works well for them. They also don't use an extensive flare technique. Large aircraft pilots are taught wing low landing technique. You approach in a crab. At the point that you are comfortable ( and this varies by pilot from 30-200ft above the runway) you apply the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway. To counteract the aircrafts tendancy to drift off the runway you apply, or drop the upwind wing slightly. This cross control manuever will allow the crab to be eliminated. With high winds you may touchdown on the upwind main wheel first ant then the downwind wheel will touchdown with spoiler deployment. All aircraft up to the An225 should be flown this way.
A few, and I mean very few pilots think the aircraft should be landed in a crab. I personally dont' like it. And I dont' think the aircraft likes it either.
( the C-5 and the B52 had crasswind landing gear, you rotate the gear to align them with the runway while the body is still crabbed. I understand this was removed inthe C-5B model.

I know that civilian trained pilots are taught this techique from day one. So it is natural for them.
An interesting sidenote. The newer Airbus aircraft that use computer controled flight controls are landed differently. The side stick controller when applied gives a "certain role RATE". Not a control input. Boeings give you a actual aileron movement depending on the amount of control input. When we apply the cross control techniques we input the controls and then maintain the input. But the airbus is giving you a role rate. Watch a A320 the next time it lands in a cross wind. They have to pump the control stick, in aileron movement, to create the crosswind technique.

Heres a few "non standerd landings"

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=229317&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20747-2W6OZ&WdsYXMg=Nve%20Puvan&QtODMg=Ubat%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29&ERDLTkt=Puvan%20-%20Ubat%20Xbat&ktODMp=1993&BP=0&WNEb25u=Qnely%20Punczna&xsIERvdWdsY=O-2450&MgTUQtODMgKE=Lrg%20nabgure%20aba-fgnaqneq%20ynaqvat%20ng%20Xnv%20Gnx.%20Guvf%20jnf%20gur%20svefg%20cvpgher%20V%20rire%20tbg%20choyvfu rq.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=19469&NEb25uZWxs=2002-04-14%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20YVXR%20%27Obrvat%20747%25%27%29%20NAQ%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Uba t%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29%27%29%20NAQ%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nve pensg%2Cnveyvar%2Ccynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencure%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepen sg_trarevp%2Cpa%2Cpbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%2B%22ynaqvat%22%27%20VA%20OBBYRNA%20ZBQR%29%29%20%20beq re%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=38&prev_id=247814&next_id=223246

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=047556&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20747-4...&WdsYXMg=Puvan%20Nveyvarf&QtODMg=Ubat%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29&ERDLTkt=Puvan%20-%20Ubat%20Xbat&ktODMp=Whar%201997&BP=0&WNEb25u=Fnzhry%20yb&xsIERvdWdsY=&MgTUQtODMgKE=Penml%20ynaqvat%20nf%20lbh%20pna%20frr%20fcbvyref%20naq%20gur%20gver%20genpx%20pyrneyl. %20Shyy%20senzr%20naq%20gnxra%20sebz%20Ornpba%20Uvyy%20jvgu%20800%20zz%20yraf.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=817601&NEb25uZWxs=1999-09-19%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=&static=yes&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20YVXR%20%27Obrvat%20747%25%27%29%20NAQ%20%28cynpr%20%3D%20%27Uba t%20Xbat%20-%20Xnv%20Gnx%20Vagreangvbany%20%28UXT%20%2F%20IUUU%29%20%28pybfrq%29%27%29%20NAQ%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nve pensg%2Cnveyvar%2Ccynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencure%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepen sg_trarevp%2Cpa%2Cpbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%2B%22ynaqvat%22%27%20VA%20OBBYRNA%20ZBQR%29%29%20%20beq re%20ol%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=90&prev_id=047761&next_id=NEXTID

Dave

Originally Posted by R Leo

No kidding. Kai Tak International was one of the worst places on the planet for an airport.

Crazy stuff happens inside too! I 'arrived' at LAX once when there must have been a substantial crosswind. At the instant of touchdown, I honestly thought we'd crashed into something. The side loading was so severe that almost every left-facing overhead bin on that MD-11 popped open and spewed their contents out on top of the pax.

Originally Posted by dmorrison

For a crosswind my aircraft has a 30Kt "demonstrated" croswind. They design the aircraft with a rudder for 3 reasons. 1, you need a control on the yaw axis if you want complete control of the aircraft. 2, in a multi engine aircraft, you need the rudder to counteract the yaw tendency if you loose an engine. and 3, during a crosswind landing ( the wind is perpendicular to the runway) you use cross controls to align the aircraft with the runway.

Now in the New York airport area the flight patterns for all three major airports (LGA, EWR, JFK) is complicated. When the runways are changed at one airport it effects which runways can be used at the other airports due to the arriving and departing flight paths.

Dave

Originally Posted by coldwar

Incredible! So if it's this complicated to keep a big plane on course and oriented correctly, could somebody explain it to me again how a bunch of terrorists with no real flight experience, and with navigation transponders switched off, managed to hit three targets so accurately on 9-11? The Pentagon one is especially mind-boggling as it needed such a long run-in at nearly ground level. Who was doing such a good job at compensating for wind direction on that one?

Originally Posted by coldwar

Incredible! So if it's this complicated to keep a big plane on course and oriented correctly, could somebody explain it to me again how a bunch of terrorists with no real flight experience, and with navigation transponders switched off, managed to hit three targets so accurately on 9-11? The Pentagon one is especially mind-boggling as it needed such a long run-in at nearly ground level. Who was doing such a good job at compensating for wind direction on that one?

Originally Posted by coldwar

Incredible! So if it's this complicated to keep a big plane on course and oriented correctly, could somebody explain it to me again how a bunch of terrorists with no real flight experience, and with navigation transponders switched off, managed to hit three targets so accurately on 9-11? The Pentagon one is especially mind-boggling as it needed such a long run-in at nearly ground level. Who was doing such a good job at compensating for wind direction on that one?

Originally Posted by cscmc1

I can tell you about flap overspeed inspections and servicing landing gear snubbers, rigging flight control cables, etc..., but none of the exciting stuff. 8^)

Chris