I don't know about you, but............ - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 03-30-2005, 10:57 PM

I'm fed up with lawyers, and doctors!

In particular!

They usually have working hours between Tuesday and Thursday, 10 am to 3:30 pm. They make you wate, are lazy, spoiled, and over-paid!

Tell me how wrong I am!

....................BB

Brian Carlton · #2 03-30-2005, 11:24 PM

Well.........

I have had the privlege of watching a doctor from both sides of the fence. The person I am referring to is a family practitoner who is above 50 years of age.

With the cost of education and the time required to obtain the license and do the residency, most doctors will not earn any money whatsoever until the age of 29. They typically face quite a bit of debt that they carry from medical school.

For the next ten years, their income is limited. If they start their own practice, it is generally slow to build. If they work for a group, the group will limit the income of the junior members of the group.

The insurance companies rule the day with regard to how much will be paid for a given visit. That being the case, it is imperative that the doctor see between 25 and 30 patients per day. This sounds like a no-brainer, and, for some physicians, it is. It all depends on the quality of the care that the doctor wishes to provide. A doctor who is simply looking for maximizing revenue has techniques to dispatch you with great efficiency. Find the specific complaint quickly, make a determination of the required tests if necessary, write the prescription if necessary and see you later.

Not all doctors will operate this way and some will actually take the time to understand the patient better. But, it costs time and money to do this. You cannot see 25 patients per day if you provide 30 minutes for each patient.

No matter how fast you wish to operate, there will be patients who have a multitude of complex problems and they will suck up 45 minutes to one hour of the day. This is unplanned and the schedule goes all to hell when it happens.

If she can keep a pace of 25 patients per day, over the course of one year she will earn approx. $150K after expenses. Too much money? I would beg to differ with you considering the opportunity cost, the workload and the responsibility.

With regard to the failure to honor the patient's time, I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, the staff is largely responsible for this. They refuse to make a simple telephone call to inform the patients that the doctor is running behind. I absolutely frosts my ass to walk in there and wait one hour because they are too GD lazy to make a simple telephone call. My dentist's office is so poor in this regard that I won't even go there unless I have the first appointment of the day. Even with the first appointment, I am kept waiting for 15 to 20 minutes! My new tactic: Show up 20 minutes late.
Seems to be working. I get to go right in. Apparently, the staff builds this into the schedule, knowing full well that most people are late.

Now, lawyers are a completely different story. By and large, they are the laziest POS on the planet. If ANYONE has ever had a lawyer call them back the same day, I'd be amazed. Their whole goal in life is to make money for themselves. Most of them have no ethics whatsoever. All of their judgment regarding the law is a business decision designed to increase their wealth with the least expenditure of time. Truly pathetic.

mzsmbs · #3 03-31-2005, 12:47 AM

my orthopedic doc is one of the best in the world and i love him.. very thorough, and considate...i the bed-side manners were a bit off but after forcing the issue a bit they have improved tremedously.. he gives me all the time i need but then i always come prepared...

a couple of lawyers i have used in the past were also great but i still feel the same about them as both of you for the most part... most are scum and only after the $$$..... fokers

aklim · #4 03-31-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

If she can keep a pace of 25 patients per day, over the course of one year she will earn approx. $150K after expenses. Too much money? I would beg to differ with you considering the opportunity cost, the workload and the responsibility.

With regard to the failure to honor the patient's time, I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, the staff is largely responsible for this. They refuse to make a simple telephone call to inform the patients that the doctor is running behind. I absolutely frosts my ass to walk in there and wait one hour because they are too GD lazy to make a simple telephone call. My dentist's office is so poor in this regard that I won't even go there unless I have the first appointment of the day. Even with the first appointment, I am kept waiting for 15 to 20 minutes! My new tactic: Show up 20 minutes late.
Seems to be working. I get to go right in. Apparently, the staff builds this into the schedule, knowing full well that most people are late.

Now, lawyers are a completely different story. By and large, they are the laziest POS on the planet. If ANYONE has ever had a lawyer call them back the same day, I'd be amazed. Their whole goal in life is to make money for themselves. Most of them have no ethics whatsoever. All of their judgment regarding the law is a business decision designed to increase their wealth with the least expenditure of time. Truly pathetic.

Oh Brian, have you forgotten the 50-70+K of insurance she probably carries?

My lawyer calls me back when I call him unless it is at night. In fact, he works till about 2100 hrs. Their whole goal in lif is to make money?

What's wrong with that? Medicine or Law, they are a business and need to be run as such. In fact, if they come across as being too much of a humanitarian I will be scared. I'd rather they be motivated by greed because I can understand that and appeal to that. That goes for any profession

koop · #5 03-31-2005, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Well.........

I have had the privlege of watching a doctor from both sides of the fence. The person I am referring to is a family practitoner who is above 50 years of age.

With the cost of education and the time required to obtain the license and do the residency, most doctors will not earn any money whatsoever until the age of 29. They typically face quite a bit of debt that they carry from medical school.

For the next ten years, their income is limited. If they start their own practice, it is generally slow to build. If they work for a group, the group will limit the income of the junior members of the group.

The insurance companies rule the day with regard to how much will be paid for a given visit. That being the case, it is imperative that the doctor see between 25 and 30 patients per day. This sounds like a no-brainer, and, for some physicians, it is. It all depends on the quality of the care that the doctor wishes to provide. A doctor who is simply looking for maximizing revenue has techniques to dispatch you with great efficiency. Find the specific complaint quickly, make a determination of the required tests if necessary, write the prescription if necessary and see you later.

Not all doctors will operate this way and some will actually take the time to understand the patient better. But, it costs time and money to do this. You cannot see 25 patients per day if you provide 30 minutes for each patient.

No matter how fast you wish to operate, there will be patients who have a multitude of complex problems and they will suck up 45 minutes to one hour of the day. This is unplanned and the schedule goes all to hell when it happens.

If she can keep a pace of 25 patients per day, over the course of one year she will earn approx. $150K after expenses. Too much money? I would beg to differ with you considering the opportunity cost, the workload and the responsibility.

With regard to the failure to honor the patient's time, I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, the staff is largely responsible for this. They refuse to make a simple telephone call to inform the patients that the doctor is running behind. I absolutely frosts my ass to walk in there and wait one hour because they are too GD lazy to make a simple telephone call. My dentist's office is so poor in this regard that I won't even go there unless I have the first appointment of the day. Even with the first appointment, I am kept waiting for 15 to 20 minutes! My new tactic: Show up 20 minutes late.
Seems to be working. I get to go right in. Apparently, the staff builds this into the schedule, knowing full well that most people are late.

Now, lawyers are a completely different story. By and large, they are the laziest POS on the planet. If ANYONE has ever had a lawyer call them back the same day, I'd be amazed. Their whole goal in life is to make money for themselves. Most of them have no ethics whatsoever. All of their judgment regarding the law is a business decision designed to increase their wealth with the least expenditure of time. Truly pathetic.

Brian, just because of your post, I'm going to turn down a pro bono case I had a request on today. I've got a half dozen but you convinced me, I'm a money grubbing scum. PM me and I will give you the contact info and you can tell her how I was reviewing the case but you axed it for her.

aklim · #6 03-31-2005, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koop

Brian, just because of your post, I'm going to turn down a pro bono case I had a request on today. I've got a half dozen but you convinced me, I'm a money grubbing scum. PM me and I will give you the contact info and you can tell her how I was reviewing the case but you axed it for her.

I'd rather you be a money grubbing scum. At least then you will be predictable and you will work for me and do the best not because you like me or some other abstract motivation. Money is a solid motivation that I can uderstnad. Remember, Greed is eternal in the Ferengi Rule of Acquisition Rule 10. And according to Rule 51, Reward anyone who adds to your profits so they will continue to do so. Much easier to understand a person's desire for money

pxland · #7 03-31-2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Well.........

I have had the privlege of watching a doctor from both sides of the fence. The person I am referring to is a family practitoner who is above 50 years of age.

With the cost of education and the time required to obtain the license and do the residency, most doctors will not earn any money whatsoever until the age of 29. They typically face quite a bit of debt that they carry from medical school.

For the next ten years, their income is limited. If they start their own practice, it is generally slow to build. If they work for a group, the group will limit the income of the junior members of the group.

The insurance companies rule the day with regard to how much will be paid for a given visit. That being the case, it is imperative that the doctor see between 25 and 30 patients per day. This sounds like a no-brainer, and, for some physicians, it is. It all depends on the quality of the care that the doctor wishes to provide. A doctor who is simply looking for maximizing revenue has techniques to dispatch you with great efficiency. Find the specific complaint quickly, make a determination of the required tests if necessary, write the prescription if necessary and see you later.

Not all doctors will operate this way and some will actually take the time to understand the patient better. But, it costs time and money to do this. You cannot see 25 patients per day if you provide 30 minutes for each patient.

No matter how fast you wish to operate, there will be patients who have a multitude of complex problems and they will suck up 45 minutes to one hour of the day. This is unplanned and the schedule goes all to hell when it happens.

If she can keep a pace of 25 patients per day, over the course of one year she will earn approx. $150K after expenses. Too much money? I would beg to differ with you considering the opportunity cost, the workload and the responsibility.

With regard to the failure to honor the patient's time, I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, the staff is largely responsible for this. They refuse to make a simple telephone call to inform the patients that the doctor is running behind. I absolutely frosts my ass to walk in there and wait one hour because they are too GD lazy to make a simple telephone call. My dentist's office is so poor in this regard that I won't even go there unless I have the first appointment of the day. Even with the first appointment, I am kept waiting for 15 to 20 minutes! My new tactic: Show up 20 minutes late.
Seems to be working. I get to go right in. Apparently, the staff builds this into the schedule, knowing full well that most people are late.

Now, lawyers are a completely different story. By and large, they are the laziest POS on the planet. If ANYONE has ever had a lawyer call them back the same day, I'd be amazed. Their whole goal in life is to make money for themselves. Most of them have no ethics whatsoever. All of their judgment regarding the law is a business decision designed to increase their wealth with the least expenditure of time. Truly pathetic.

How can you take half a subject and write a very well thought out, completely educated opinion on it and then follow it with a short paragraph of speculative drivel. Most of the lawyers I know work their asses off for whatever reason.

Instead of deciding who is overpaid (is there such a thing?), lets talk about the disgustingly underpaid.

Teachers and cops.

Paul X.

G-Benz · #8 03-31-2005, 10:24 AM

Sorry, but I had to chime in.

My brother is a doctor. A very successful one at age 43 now. Still, as a specialist and not a surgeon (add 10-15 more years of poverty), there are folks in the business world that could do just as well.

I read the previous posts regarding doctor's long hours and expenses incurred from medical school and insurance...pretty accurate, so I won't add to that.

I will say that, I've seen the required coursework and workload needed not only to complete the pre-med program (which many go on to graduate programs before getting admitted into medical school), and I can't fathom anyone doing all of that just so you can make a lot of money nearly 30 years later.

I think the original post was pretty short-sighted.

Snibble · #9 03-31-2005, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusyBenz

I'm fed up with lawyers, and doctors!

In particular!

They usually have working hours between Tuesday and Thursday, 10 am to 3:30 pm. They make you wate, are lazy, spoiled, and over-paid!

Tell me how wrong I am!

....................BB

Are you jealous?

There is a lot of work that doctors go through to become one.

Over paid? When it comes to helping one's well being.. one wouldn't put a price on someone's life/health. You think a mechanic should earn as much or more than a doctor?

aklim · #10 03-31-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snibble

Are you jealous?

There is a lot of work that doctors go through to become one.

Over paid? When it comes to helping one's well being.. one wouldn't put a price on someone's life/health. You think a mechanic should earn as much or more than a doctor?

Mostly I see the hours he qoutes from female docs that have kids and they are now kicking back. Also same thing from most walks of life. When I was working in IT department in a medical center, I see docs work from 0800-1700 Mon - Fri unless they have to move to a different clinic. Sometimes they work 2 or 3 clinics in the medical center.

Brian Carlton · #11 03-31-2005, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pxland

How can you take half a subject and write a very well thought out, completely educated opinion on it and then follow it with a short paragraph of speculative drivel. Most of the lawyers I know work their asses off for whatever reason.

I can do it because I have inside knowledge on the one profession and am an outsider on the other profession.

It's simply a case of perspective.

I'm probably dead wrong about lawyers, but, my observations from the outside are unfavorable.

Brian Carlton · #12 03-31-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koop

Brian, just because of your post, I'm going to turn down a pro bono case I had a request on today. I've got a half dozen but you convinced me, I'm a money grubbing scum. PM me and I will give you the contact info and you can tell her how I was reviewing the case but you axed it for her.

Don't take it personally Koop. I'm quite sure my opinion, as an outsider, is probably unfair.

Laywers, just like doctors run the gamut. There are those, such as yourself, that will take pro bono cases because they have a profound respect for the law and wish for it to be applied fairly, the resources of the client notwithstanding.

I have been involved and have knowledge of situations where the dollar amount of the loss is in the area of $10,000. Now, this may not seem like a trememdous amount of money, however, there is no possibility of recovering this amount of money in the state of NY. The small claims limit is $3K. No attorney that I know of will take the case for the potential gain of $3,333. So, a plaintiff is basically SOL with this loss. It clouds my judgment of lawyers, and it's probably in error.

Maybe you would consider taking that pro-bono client back??

Lebenz · #13 03-31-2005, 12:46 PM

Many views, such as the one that started this thread are based on expectations or disappointing experiences rather than reality. Both docs and lawyers are characterized as being highly intelligent, motivated, even driven people. My experience is that there are good folks and bad folks in both these professions. Often docs are viewed as saviors so they get, or at least used to get, more respect than other folks who are similarly dedicated. Lawyers often deal with the rude parts of life, and as such are frequently viewed as the source of scorn.

I've been fortunate to work for a large number of both docs and lawyers. I've known folks from both professions who are heroes and folks from both professions who are really questionable. At the end of the day they are just folks who try to make the best of the opportunities presented them. Who amongst us would do any less?

Would a doc who works to save someone who has lived a life of excess be bad a bad person for trying to save them?

Would a lawyer who works to defend a thief be bad for trying to save them?

MTI · #14 03-31-2005, 12:49 PM

There are thousands of lawyers that will take on a plaintiff's $10K case. About the only thing that Brian has "hit on the head" is that lawyers, like any other profession, span the entire spectrum of economic status, political viewpoint and professionalism. To broadly say that they are all lazy or someting else is juvenile.

For those that agree with Brian, what alternatives would you offer . . . duels? How about only allowing hourly rates, so that affording a legal represenation in negligence cases is only available to those that can afford it?

TwitchKitty · #15 03-31-2005, 01:13 PM

It is very easy to criticize what you don't understand.