Now, I know that you're weak on the whole facts and Panama thing but; why would you want to test out a new weapon down there? You'd have no way of gathering usable data as to the effectivness of the weapon.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

So what country were you in when you watched the Fallujah footage?

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

From Wikpedia at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Just_Cause

The name "Just Cause" has been used primarily by the United States military for planning and historical purposes and by other U.S. entities such as the State Department. Panamanians usually refer to it simply as "The Invasion" (La Invasión). It has been reported that the invasion was derisively referred to as "Operation Just Because" by skeptics inside The Pentagon.

- - - - - - - - - - -

With the collapse of the Panamanian Defense Force, looting and other forms of vandalism quickly ensued in most urban areas, but despite the widespread lawlessness, the main focus of the American forces continued to be Noriega's capture and extradition.

- - - - - - - - - - -

International reaction

On December 22 the Organization of American States passed a resolution deploring the invasion and calling for withdrawal of U.S. troops. A similar resolution was passed on December 29 by the United Nations General Assembly. Earlier, a Security Council resolution condemning the invasion had been vetoed by the United States, United Kingdom and France (See Facts on File, December 31, 1989 reference).

After the invasion, governments throughout Latin America — including the government of Chile under Augusto Pinochet, which was generally supportive of United States policies — issued statements condemning the invasion and calling for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops. One of the reasons Bush gave for the invasion, the reestablishment of democracy in Panama, was widely viewed with suspicion, since the United States was perceived throughout Latin America as serving its own strategic or economic interests, often at the expense of democratic principles. Noriega himself was considered to be a former puppet of the United States who had cooperated with American efforts to destabilize the Sandinista regime in Nicaragua. It is generally believed that during that time the United States did little to curtail his involvement in drug trafficking.

The various reasons supplied by the United States to justify the invasion were widely regarded in Latin America as a thin veneer to disguise other intentions, such as the reestablishment of military bases in Panama or even the overturning the Torrijos-Carter treaties themselves. According to the timetable stipulated by the Torrijos-Carter treaties, the United States was scheduled to hand over the administration of the canal to Panama on January 1, 1990. The Panamanian government under Noriega had said it intended to appoint Tomás Altamirano Duque, widely known as a Noriega loyalist to the top administrator post. This choice was unacceptable to the United States, which had expressed fears he would excessively politicize canal operation.

These fears had some credibility, justified by the opposition within the United States Congress to handing the canal over to Panama by the year 2000. In the end, the United States fulfilled its treaty obligations and turned over the canal and military bases to Panama.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Damn, and here I was lured into the hypnotic possibility that we might stay on topic!

B

My wife will be most upset at this turn of events...

But if Bot and I both are which one of us is the polygamist? (I'm voting Bot, he's kinda crazy that way, if ya know what I mean...)

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Cute. Perhaps you missed the word "rarely" which was used in the sentence:

Having seen some footage of Fallujah, rarely shown on U.S. TV....

So how many video portrayals of block after block of destroyed city of Fallujah have you seen?

Not that I had much affection for the dudes, just that I'm wary of the experience of Brer Fox and the tar baby.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Uh-oh, I see the ugly face of a rampaging conumdrum approaching.


I invoke the Beatles for protection.

I am you as you are me and we are all together....

B

I was slightly wrong about a part of it, but there was some accuracy to what I said. What the hell do you know about the war there? You're aware, no doubt, that Bush was getting a lot of grief about being a wimp just before that glorious victory?

Try finding the cahonnial vitality to watch the film, the film that won the Oscar for documentary, the title of that film again, "The Panama Deception."

G'head, prove me wrong in my assumption that you wouldn't be caught dead watching something that might contain uncomfortable truths. Most of your world view is centered on the supremacy and omniscience of our military and leadership. I can imagine you don't want that armor to get tarnished in any way.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I will see your Beatles and raise you a Rolling Stones with guest singer Yoko Ono - there is no way your "Beatles" can survive that!

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Oh, I forgot, you're easily confused. Humblest apologies.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Mac, You were unaware that Carter had given the large body of water away. That's not slightly wrong, that's totally ignorant. I don't claim to know that much about Panama but I'm sure as hell not going to limit my knowledge of it to ONE MOVIE! Even if it was an oscar winning documentary that St. Peter himself came down and blessed. As you well know Mr. Moore's "documentary" won several awards that doesn't make it any more credible or grounded in fact.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Oh golly, I'm helpless before such cute evasiveness. But then do I really expect you will ever admit that I've utterly destroyed your raison d'etre and left a smoking ruin where once stood the trappings of your life?

Yes, it will take time and much patient care for you to let go of the attachments that torment you so.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Good one. I thought I did that the other day with your Major Rokke? And furthermore, I'll kindly ask you to keep your hands off my raisins!

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Peragro, get off your GD high horse and read the Wikpedia stuff I referenced.

Then again, I imagine you'll just dismiss the suspicions of most of Latin America regarding our motives as mere America hating or ignorant paranoia. Considering that you have approximately zero awareness of the century or so of brutal American subjegation of big swaths of Latin America, I don't imagine that you'll give much credence to any reports coming from that sector regarding U.S. behavior.

Seek ye some education. Carter indeed gave it away but I maintain Bush's kicking of keister in Panama was based in good measure on U.S./Republican unwillingness to go softly into the night.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

To recapitulate what we have learned thus far....

Everybody on the planet except cmac2012 was aware that we freely ceded sovereignty of the Panama Canal to Panama.

cmac2012 seeks to inform and castigate the world of some diabolical conspiracy concerning the canal about which a documentary, a novel (John Le Carre), and God alone know how many investigative journalists have pursued stories. Tomes of FOI petitions have revealed reams of DoD and State Dept memos and analyses.

Somehow, and goodness know it must be yet another manifestation of either the satanic Vast Rightwing Conspiracy or the diabolically clever PNAC NeoCons, cmac2012 was unaware that we gave the Panama Canal to Panama over six years ago.

Bot