Evolution and Christianity - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #16 11-11-2005, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

I see corruption as being far worse amoung the atheists....

greed for power is a human condition....not a religious issue.

You're working with a pretty small sample there.

Religion is not about the human condition??????

Botnst · #17 11-11-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

The problem with the view that the cause of the corruption of religion is political power, is that it doesn't acknowledge that religion itself is a form of power. Since it is, it is subject to the same problems as political power. Robertson is a good example. Seeking religious power is as equally problematical as seeking political power. It may even be worse because politicians can resort to a realpolitik justification for their quest for power, whereas the pious justifications of power in religion haves a strong tendency to delude religious power seekers into thinking they are pious.
A strong case can be made that the history of Christianity, is to a large extent, the history of the worship of power. One of the most prominent aspects of God in Christianity is omnipotence. God is so powerful, that whatever God says goes. He can even tell people to kill their children (Abraham) and still be considered good because he is powerful enough to define good.

God is like a gun. Okay, a big gun. The biggest possible gun.

Absent humanity, there is no problem. A gun can sit for years and years and nobody get's hurt. It takes a human to activate it's potential.

In the same sense, whether God exists or not, it takes a human being to invoke some interpretation of God with which to impose his (or HIS) will.

Thus, if you're an atheist, the Bible is an accumulation of deluded people bashing each other with a non-entity. If you're a Biblical Literalist, it is an accumulation of wisdom derived from folks disobedience to God's will.

Botnst · #18 11-11-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

You're working with a pretty small sample there.

Religion is not about the human condition??????

Atheism maybe a small, relatively new belief system, but it sure has harvested a bumper crop of souls in its short history. maybe when atheist zealots have a Reformation they'll quit killing people for being irrational.

Bot

boneheaddoctor · #19 11-11-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

You're working with a pretty small sample there.

Religion is not about the human condition??????

I was talking about the greed and power hungriness you were trying to attribute to religion....that is the human condition....the greediest and most powerhungry people in history were aethiests....

kerry · #20 11-11-2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Thus, if you're an atheist, the Bible is an accumulation of deluded people bashing each other with a non-entity. .

Not at all. Many atheists view religion as an important element of the creation of human culture. Religion people per se, are no more deluded than geocentrics or flat earthers.
The issue is whether religion is the same kind of phenomenon as other human institutions like parliments and corporations. I believe it is and see no reason to exempt it from the problems those institutions encounter. Nor do I see a reason to give it any privileged epistemological status.
I'm arguing that the predominant concept of God in Christianity supports hierarchical notions of authority, power and moral subservience. This is not to say that Christian concepts of God can't be developed to avoid these problems.

boneheaddoctor · #21 11-11-2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

Not at all. Many atheists view religion as an important element of the creation of human culture. Religion people per se, are no more deluded than geocentrics or flat earthers.
The issue is whether religion is the same kind of phenomenon as other human institutions like parliments and corporations. I believe it is and see no reason to exempt it from the problems those institutions encounter. Nor do I see a reason to give it any privileged epistemological status.
I'm arguing that the predominant concept of God in Christianity supports hierarchical notions of authority, power and moral subservience. This is not to say that Christian concepts of God can't be developed to avoid these problems.

Um...the flat earth society are worong becasue the earth is proven to be round...

Nobody has proven god does not exist however....

your analogy shows your aetheist bias....

Ether · #22 11-11-2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

....the greediest and most powerhungry people in history were aethiests....

Please provide some examples that would support this statement.

boneheaddoctor · #23 11-11-2005, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ether

Please provide some examples that would support this statement.

Stalin....Hitler...Castro....thats a start....

Communists lead the list however in people killed to further thier cause...

kerry · #24 11-11-2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Stalin....Hitler...Castro....thats a start....

Communists lead the list however in people killed to further thier cause...

Your argument was that atheists were worse than religious people (or theists??) when it comes to corruption. So far, you've given no evidence to support that view.
May I suggest you start with Buddhists and prove that their atheism has corrupted them and move on from there.

boneheaddoctor · #25 11-11-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

Your argument was that atheists were worse than religious people (or theists??) when it comes to corruption. So far, you've given no evidence to support that view.
May I suggest you start with Buddhists and prove that their atheism has corrupted them and move on from there.

Stalin killed over 20 million in the last centry alone..not counting the Chinese Cultural revolution....etc....

Hittle killed how many Jews?

thats not proof? THen what is....

Ether · #26 11-11-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Nobody has proven god does not exist however....

Nobody HAS to prove that god does not exist. In any debate, the burden of proof is on the person or persons making the assertion. Unless there is PROOF that god does exist then it must be assumed that it does not.

If I were to claim that I had invented an invisible anti-gravity flying machine would it be your responsibility to prove that it did not exist? Or mine to produce evidence of it's existence?

boneheaddoctor · #27 11-11-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ether

Nobody HAS to prove that god does not exist. In any debate, the burden of proof is on the person or persons making the assertion. Unless there is PROOF that god does exist then it must be assumed that it does not.

If I were to claim that I had invented an invisible anti-gravity flying machine would it be your responsibility to prove that it did not exist? Or mine to produce evidence of it's existence?

NO....somebody makes the claim god does not exist its up to them to prove it......I have seen NO aetheist present any indisputible proof of that....

Ether · #28 11-11-2005, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Stalin killed over 20 million in the last centry alone..not counting the Chinese Cultural revolution....etc....

Hittle killed how many Jews?

thats not proof? THen what is....

Remove Hitler from your list.
People have been making the Hitler was an atheist claim forever it seems, but it simply isn't true. He was a devout Catholic that used his religious beliefs to justify his hideous actions.

boneheaddoctor · #29 11-11-2005, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ether

Remove Hitler from your list.
People have been making the Hitler was an atheist claim forever it seems, but it simply isn't true. He was a devout Catholic that used his religious beliefs to justify his hideous actions.

Not by any account I have ever seen......they all considered Adolf an aetheist...however compared to Stalin and the Chinese leader Mao Zedong he was a lightweight...

Ether · #30 11-11-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

NO....somebody makes the claim god does not exist its up to them to prove it......I have seen NO aetheist present any indisputible proof of that....

No....You are missing a very basic point.

Theists claim that there is a god; atheists do not. Religionists often challenge atheists to prove that there is no god; but this misses the point. Atheists claim god is unproved, not disproved. In any argument, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim

Just as I make no assertion that the non existence of Unicorns is a proven fact. I merely state that their existence remains unproved. Same goes for god.