Good.

So you would agree with me that it is a silly argument to say that somebody should or should not have a say in some event simply because of proximity?

Life begins at conception - period (No pun intended!).

Man/Woman decide to have sex...

Condom, spermicide, diaphram (sp?), coitus-interuptus - whatever. If it don't work, he/she are, both, in deep doo-doo.

It is now the biological equivalent of the "China-Syndrome," if you will.

Now, along comes the "State" and it has decided that MY tax dollars are suppose to pay for the "error" - you better believe my opinion on the matter really matters...

As for the "partial-birth abortion" decision this past week - I say "YEAH!"

NO ONE CAN EVER CONVINCE ME THAT ANY MOTHER'S LIFE WAS IN DANGER IF THE BIRTH WAS COMPLETED!

THAT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BIG FAT F**KING LIE!

If that is true, that so-called "doctor" better turn in his license to practice ANY MEDICINE if he's that much of a f**kup that he can't save a patient's life while a perfectly formed baby is in a birth-canal, purposely turned around by the "doctor" himself, in order to perform the "un-natural act" of killing that partially-birthed child.

HELL has a place reserved for these bastards.

And the souls of those dead babies will be their witnesses at their judgement in the end-times.

Because, on this earth, our own judges will never have the balls to see it differently while the "all-mighty dollar-and-hustle" still reigns as their GOD.

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

How is that known? What are the parameters?

So when do you consider that death has occurred?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

MO? When the cells start splitting and they are then sharing the DNA from both parties...really simple concept...

MO, again? When the brain's activity, and the body itself, cannot sustain life for each other, without external stimuli to one, or the other ... the brain and/or the body then quits ... end of story ... flat line for both ... /\/\/\/\_____________

Really simple conclusions...too complicated for debating purposes though...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

Begins with cell division, not at syngamy? Good, that makes hormonal birth control okay.

What is "flatline? What I mean by that is different regions of the brain flatline at different times. It's just on TV where a single trace is paramount, IIRC. How about when cellular respiration ceases? At that point only Jesus Christ is bringing back the dead.

MO? I'm not arguing birth-control here.

I'm arguing when the life process begins. And MO is, when the sperm penetrates the egg and the first "cell" starts the division process, thereby the sharing of each contributors' DNA.

I'm all fine and dandy with any form of BC - SaranWrap, Trojans, Coke/Pepsi, whatever flips your trigger ... but once that sperm/egg thing starts a'cookin' - Hands off...

MO? As far as the "levels" of flat-lining that are available for detailing a death ... I don't care one bit about any actual "line" ... My decision rests in the knowledge of; "Will the brain and body, without any external stimulation (breathing tubes, wires, probes, etc. ...), continue to sustain each other to promote life?"

If one, or the other, can't, and the other then quits, then the question pretty much answered itself.

Death...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

By that definition, barrier birth control is okay but hormonal birth control is bad. That's pretty close to the Catholic Church's position and is probably the best reasoned argument against abortion for any reason.

Your definition of death needs work as it requires fortune-telling.

B

Your tax dollars only pay for the "error" if it is born.

Abortion is one of the most difficult issues to discuss.

I am opposed to it on moral grounds (the taking of a life), but am reluctantly in favor of keeping it legal.

I understand the argument that no one has the right to tell a woman what to do with her body, in other words, the pro-choice argument.

It's the same argument that people use to argue for the legalisation of drug use, suicide, prostitution, etc.

However, the argument is not the same for abortion (I can do whatever I want with my body because it's my body) because the choice involves the killing of another life.

You can argue when life truly begins, but the fact is that near the end of the second tri-mester, at about 24 weeks the fetus is viable outside of the womb, and abortion is still allowable. Which to me is a crime.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

So-called partial-birth abortion is used when there is a serious problem with the fetus, and it is not viable. It's an extremely rare procedure.

If you know of any case where it was used to terminate a pregnancy just to get rid of a viable fetus, please let us know.

But I do agree that viability is a very good metric, even if it's not easy to determine. Most probably are viable at 24 weeks, but what about 20 or 12?

However, I don't think simple viability is the right metric for abortion. Very early in the pregnancy, there is no nervous system. I don't consider this a problem. Later, there is still not viability yet there is a nervous system, and thus (most likely) human feelings.

So if it is private pay, play on? If the woman doesn't want to play host any more, why don't you take over?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

By that defination, does the blob of cells aka fetus live? It cannot sustain life without external means can it?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

How does the fetus fare when you ask your question of: "Will the brain and body, without any external stimulation (breathing tubes, wires, probes, etc. ...), continue to sustain each other to promote life?"

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

So why does my opinion not matter since I will be paying for the error if it is born?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Suicide and prostitution are fine with me. Problem with drugs is that it does seem to cause other problems.

So, if the fetus were surgically removed, would you be able and willing to host it assuming the woman decides to not want to play host any longer?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow