But is that nervous system fully developed or is it just half baked? In any case, it still comes down to whether we can force someone to play host against their will.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
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What's the point of this question? I was just stating a fact, that no tax money is spent for abortions, but it is spent on welfare. Does your opinion matter? Sure. About as much as mine.

Half baked is different from not baked at all. Do you suggest that we euthanise people who are not fully developed mentally? If it is known that there are no human feelings, I am not against abortion. But very rare is this known late-term. Almost never. Early on, it's a given.

If or when I regress to that state, I wish somebody would do me that favor. Actually, I do have that provision in my living will.

How would we know if there were or were not human feelings? Basic response to stimuli might not tell us much or enough to make that judgment. Viability I suppose would be some indicator of that.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
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03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
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11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Viability is a dodge. A frozen embryo is viable and so is a newborn infant, and so is an person with advanced Alzhiemer's. All 3 require care or they will soon die, just different types of care

I know that partial birth abortion is extremely rare, and hopefully only used in cases where the mother's health is an issue or if there is a serious problem with the fetus.

I don't know if any pregnancies are terminated in the second trimester other than the above two examples. I sure hope not.

When my twins were born three years ago, 26 weeks was the earliest gestational age when the fetus could survive, but there have been several examples recently where fetuses survived at 24 weeks. It is not a good thing for the fetus, though, as it takes an enormous amount of medical intervention, and babies born at this early age have a very high risk of a number of medical problems throughout their lives.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

I'm not arguing BC at all ... my wife needed the hormonal BC pills to regulate her periods - the side benefit didn't hurt though!

As far as the Catholic Church's position on BC - that's their problem and theology, not mine ...

No fortune-telling for me ... just a "DNR" in the wallet and applied to the hospital orders.

If I need Con-Ed/Ready-Kilowatt to keep me alive, there's not a whole lot of "quality-of-life" issues I'm going to be involved in.

Besides, how far CAN you drive a Benz while you're plugged into an extension cord?

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

Your tax dollars keep abortion clinics going and going and going...

Any tax dollar that goes to Planned Parenthood (PP), or similiar organization, is used to support abortions, either directly, or indirectly.

If one penny is in PPs' hands, it's one penny that can be used to offset monies used for the abortion process itself. I'm not getting into any "accountant mumbo-jumbo about slush-funding hocus-pocus voodoo that they do" debate about this.

If Congress gives funding for "health care" purposes to these organizations and any dollars ends up in PPs' hands, then it's abortion funding, plain and simple.

I'm not buying any of the "sugar-coated" crap the left-wing "NOW-Nagofite" polititians want us to buy.

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

And I'm not buying this statement, as much as I read it. Planned Parenthood is the only family-planning clinic in reach of many families. Missouri recently defunded a number of PP clinics, which means that people now have to drive an extra 200 or so miles for affordable hormonal birth control. None of these clinics did any surgical procedures, which includes abortion.

These are poor people who will get welfare or child tax credits (which is money directly out of the treasury). They would just as soon prevent conception, but the wrong-headed Missouri politicians can't seem to get their heads far enough out of their asses to see reality.

I don't think that withholding money for family planning is a good idea, and as I said, I don't buy the "indirect" funding argument. There really is financial separation. The abortion side of the business pays for itself using both fees and private grants.

#1.) If the woman doesn't want to play host? She should have thought that through before she allowed the act to take place - Protection - kill the bastard - had her "posse" kick his ass when she said "no" and he didn't listen...

I'm not going to debate the morality of rape/incest here - it's the act of abortion - carry it to term and either keep the child or offer the child up for adoption.

#2.) Me take over? We've got welfare, W2 (in WI.) and all sorts of courts that can't even get the KNOWN father to take care of his responsibility.

AND, my wife and I DID TAKE CARE OF OUR FIRST GRANDSON FOR OVER 4 YEARS AFTER HE WAS BORN ... Don't think for one second that I thought mom should have had an abortion.

You don't even want to go there...


YOU DON'T TAKE A LIFE BECAUSE IT'S TOO INCONVENIENT FOR YOU AT THE TIME. YOU'RE A FUMBDUCK IF YOU THINK THAT WAY. PERIOD...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

The mother is the carrier, if you will. Without her, the fetus will fail to mature. If it's within the first moment of the first cell dividing, until the child enters the world and breathes its first breath, the woman is the child's ONLY chance to succeed.

Obviously, medical science has been able to take over when the mother's life has been taken (i.e., accidents, illnesses, and a C-section is performed to SAVE THE BABY'S LIFE...).

But, again, arguing DNR orders and abortion are two separate threads...

Back to topic - Abortion...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

How about taking a life because it's convenient for me? Say I butcher a cow for the food. That's much more convenient than eating its grain. Is that wrong?

Oh, you mean human life. Well, I don't agree that a clump of cells with no self-knowledge can apply for the same protections as you or me.

And for your information, I'm not a "FUMBDUCK," but apparently I do "THINK THAT WAY."

As I stated earlier, "DNR" issues have their own issues - mine is "Don't plug me in the freakin' wall. I'm not a "PS2" for the Dr.s' amusement."

Now, if the woman is pregnant, and she's on her way to assuming room temperature, I believe the smart Doctors, out there, will have already figured out that there's another patient that MIGHT need their attention.

DUH!

Since I'm not the one pregnant, and never will be, I'm not arguing this point.

And, since Doctors (real ones) have taken the Hippocratic Oath, I would hope that they have some sense of responsibilty to that Oath and follow it to the letter.

EOS (End Of Soapbox/Sermon ... you choose the last one...)

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

Your above comments are the reason I'm choosing not to debate this ...

Obviously, we're talking Human-vs-animal...

Obviously, we're talking cells-vs-you-or-me...

But, you missed the point of the last statement ... If taking a life, because that particular life is too inconveient for your lifestyle at the time you want to take that life, is the way you think, MO is that that type of thinking is idiotic (therefore, the term "fumbduck" is about a rude as I care to get...) and if you're inclined to think that way ... then I truly feel sorry for you and even more so for the folks that associate with you.

I do hope that, some day, you'll see a better world out there and do what you can to improve it.

Killing the inocent, IMHO, is, DEFINATELY, NOT the way to do it.

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

You're sadly mistaken about my life, and the lives of those around me. While it may be a nice fantasy of yours that I am not a rational, productive citizen, it's completely unfounded.

Of course, I reject your version of morality, as much as you reject mine. Who's right? It should be obvious. One shouldn't tell someone else what to believe.

Don't want an abortion? Don't have one.

I can kick you out of my house any time even if I did invite you over for dinner. Why is this any different? She can change her mind any time. For instance, if I am having sex with a woman, she can say "stop" at any time. If I don't stop, it becomes rape. What you are saying is that because at one time she might have agreed to play host she now has to carry on. Why? If I invited you into my house in the middle of a bad storm and I decide to eject you out, are you saying that I cannot if you won't survive till you get to the next house? That is your problem.

You misunderstand. I meant you take over the pregnancy if you are able and willing.

I agree with that statement. However, must I accept your idea of when the life began?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
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